Thanks everyone

Question:

Little Monster’s post: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again > For wishing me a happy b-day > It was a sad one, for a start I do not like getting older, though I seem > to sometimes be getting wiser (othertimes more stupid but mainly > because, it was the day my grandmother died. She went into a hospice last > weekend, having been very ill for a few years (but my, so active!) and so > a couple of hours after I had the happy conversation with my mum on the > phone, she rang again to tell me the sad news. So I am an unhappy > monster. The funeral is next week, I am told. So now I have no > grandparents – quite poingnant, the last two to die, both my grandads, I > was not around, and having too much of a stressed time to really give the > fact any thought. So yesterday brought home to me /their/ deaths too, long > ago though they were. > But I spent a big part of the day fitting a transfer/temperature/fan > control panel to the ‘puter, and making some rubber gaskets (from inner > tube no less) for the fans at the front and back to see if it would make > them quieter. Well, it seems a little quieter. > Well, life goes on… > Monster

Sorry to hear you’ve had upsetting news. I’m not very good with offering support with people’s grief so all I’ll say is – take care, I’ll be thinking of you at this time. Mostly, when older generations die and our family have funerals they end up being quite pleasant affairs, an opportunity to see the extended family and talk of memories from happier times – I hope your nan’s funeral is more like this, if she was active she’s probably left people with lots of fun memories. As you say, life goes on… luckily.

Response:

Sorry to hear about the news. I lost my grandparents when I was really young so never really got that upset over it despite having good times with my grandad or so I recall from what little I remember. "Little Monster" <r…@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message

news:675003cff19e3888276fd487fd4143cf@news.teranews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again > For wishing me a happy b-day > It was a sad one, for a start I do not like getting older, though I seem > to sometimes be getting wiser (othertimes more stupid but mainly > because, it was the day my grandmother died. She went into a hospice last > weekend, having been very ill for a few years (but my, so active!) and so > a couple of hours after I had the happy conversation with my mum on the > phone, she rang again to tell me the sad news. So I am an unhappy > monster. The funeral is next week, I am told. So now I have no > grandparents – quite poingnant, the last two to die, both my grandads, I > was not around, and having too much of a stressed time to really give the > fact any thought. So yesterday brought home to me /their/ deaths too, long > ago though they were. > But I spent a big part of the day fitting a transfer/temperature/fan > control panel to the ‘puter, and making some rubber gaskets (from inner > tube no less) for the fans at the front and back to see if it would make > them quieter. Well, it seems a little quieter. > Well, life goes on… > Monster > — > I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy > All the girls love me > And I will never grow Ooollldd > I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! > http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

Hope I get the wording right, Monster, I’d like you to know you have my sympathy. It was a special b-day though, celebrating life coming and going, the eternal circle we all have to accept. A special way to think of your grandparents on such a special day will make them be with you when you need them spiritually. I hold it with those indigenous folks who believe in the connectedness with their forefathers. Wise people, hm? Sympathies from Sumi

Response:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:28:10 -0400, the world was enlightented by sumire, unto whom the words are attributed: > Hope I get the wording right, Monster, > I’d like you to know you have my sympathy. > It was a special b-day though, > celebrating life coming and going, > the eternal circle we all have to accept. > A special way to think of your grandparents > on such a special day will make them be with > you when you need them spiritually. > I hold it with those indigenous folks > who believe in the connectedness with their forefathers. > Wise people, hm?

I never thought of that. Thanks Mosnbter — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sklenge wrote: > Little Monster’s post: >> Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again >> For wishing me a happy b-day >> mainly because, it was the day my grandmother died. She went into a >> hospice last weekend, having been very ill for a few years (but my, >> so active!) and so a couple of hours after I had the happy >> Monster > Sorry to hear you’ve had upsetting news. I’m not very good with > offering support with people’s grief so all I’ll say is – take care,

You did better than I ever could. I’m sorry, Monster (((Monster))) – Michaela

Response:

sorry to hear about your sad news monster <hand shake> ghost – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Little Monster wrote: > On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 14:28:10 -0400, the world was enlightented by sumire, > unto whom the words are attributed: >>Hope I get the wording right, Monster, >>I’d like you to know you have my sympathy. >>It was a special b-day though, >>celebrating life coming and going, >>the eternal circle we all have to accept. >>A special way to think of your grandparents >>on such a special day will make them be with >>you when you need them spiritually. >>I hold it with those indigenous folks >>who believe in the connectedness with their forefathers. >>Wise people, hm? > I never thought of that. Thanks > Mosnbter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Michaela" (michaelashouse) writes: > Sklenge wrote: >> Little Monster’s post: >>> Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again >>> For wishing me a happy b-day >>> mainly because, it was the day my grandmother died. She went into a >>> hospice last weekend, having been very ill for a few years (but my, >>> so active!) and so a couple of hours after I had the happy >>> Monster >> Sorry to hear you’ve had upsetting news. I’m not very good with >> offering support with people’s grief so all I’ll say is – take care, > You did better than I ever could. > I’m sorry, Monster > (((Monster))) > – Michaela

Just saw this now, Monster, and your original post carried here is partial as well it seems, so I did not get the "whole" news or your words about your grandmom’s departure…. Can’t help but think now of how your dream of love for "old books and old knowledge" might have been a bit of a sort of pre-knowledge… Maybe she was sending thoughts your way just then…? Grandparents in a way are the so so many chapters that were written for us to happen to be born… As Sklenge -or was it Sumire?- said, there is a thing of contninuity and life cycle to her passing the day of your bday…Carrying on the bagage of the previous generation in our very cells, their life continued that way through us, prolonged beyond their life on earth… In a metaphoric way, it is as if she handed you the pen to write the next life chapters…Through your life and each year and bday, carryign her life and cells one year further through you, writing life, hers and yours, as you go on… (((((((((((((((((((((Monster))))))))))))))))))))))) Not much one can say to bring comfort in such moments… So may the hug say it all….. Chloe —

Response:

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:19:45 +0000, the world was enlightented by Eleonore Beaudoin, unto whom the words are attributed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michaela" (michaelashouse) writes: >> Sklenge wrote: >>> Little Monster’s post: >>>> Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again >>>> For wishing me a happy b-day >>>> mainly because, it was the day my grandmother died. She went into a >>>> hospice last weekend, having been very ill for a few years (but my, >>>> so active!) and so a couple of hours after I had the happy >>>> Monster >>> Sorry to hear you’ve had upsetting news. I’m not very good with >>> offering support with people’s grief so all I’ll say is – take care, >> You did better than I ever could. >> I’m sorry, Monster >> (((Monster))) >> – Michaela > Just saw this now, Monster, and your original post carried here is partial > as well it seems, so I did not get the "whole" news or your words about > your grandmom’s departure…. > Can’t help but think now of how your dream of love for "old books and old > knowledge" might have been a bit of a sort of pre-knowledge… > Maybe she was sending thoughts your way just then…? > Grandparents in a way are the so so many chapters that were written for us > to happen to be born… > As Sklenge -or was it Sumire?- said, there is a thing of contninuity and > life cycle to her passing the day of your bday…Carrying on the bagage of the > previous generation in our very cells, their life continued that way > through us, prolonged beyond their life on earth… > In a metaphoric way, it is as if she handed you the pen to write the next life > chapters…Through your life and each year and bday, carryign her life and > cells one year further through you, writing life, hers and yours, as > you go on… > (((((((((((((((((((((Monster))))))))))))))))))))))) > Not much one can say to bring comfort in such moments… > So may the hug say it all….. > Chloe

Thanks, everyone Mosnter — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

Monster. I am too dunk to reply properly, just a word of commiseration nd to remind you you have a nice sunny terrace waiting for you nr Barcelona whenever you ant. OB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Little Monster <r…@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message <news:675003cff19e3888276fd487fd4143cf@news.teranews.com>… > Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again > For wishing me a happy b-day > It was a sad one, for a start I do not like getting older, though I seem > to sometimes be getting wiser (othertimes more stupid but mainly > because, it was the day my grandmother died. She went into a hospice last > weekend, having been very ill for a few years (but my, so active!) and so > a couple of hours after I had the happy conversation with my mum on the > phone, she rang again to tell me the sad news. So I am an unhappy > monster. The funeral is next week, I am told. So now I have no > grandparents – quite poingnant, the last two to die, both my grandads, I > was not around, and having too much of a stressed time to really give the > fact any thought. So yesterday brought home to me /their/ deaths too, long > ago though they were. > But I spent a big part of the day fitting a transfer/temperature/fan > control panel to the ‘puter, and making some rubber gaskets (from inner > tube no less) for the fans at the front and back to see if it would make > them quieter. Well, it seems a little quieter. > Well, life goes on… > Monster

Response:

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:40:54 -0700, the world was enlightented by OB, unto whom the words are attributed: > Monster. I am too dunk to reply properly, just a word of commiseration > nd to remind you you have a nice sunny terrace waiting for you nr > Barcelona whenever you ant.

I’ve not forgotten – thanks! > Little Monster <r…@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message > <news:675003cff19e3888276fd487fd4143cf@news.teranews.com>… >> Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again >> For wishing me a happy b-day >> It was a sad one, for a start I do not like getting older, though I >> seem >> Well, life goes on…

Monster — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

Hi Monster, i’m really very sorry about your grandmother Monster. i am the undisputed king of such things my friend. On my birthday. My foster father died. His mother died. My brother-in-law died Janis Joplin died. Every year now, my foster family members call me and ask who i’m going to kill this year. i’m really sorry i missed your birthday too Monster, i’ve been pretty depressed as of late and i tend to get grouchy when depressed so i spent some time in a.s.s. letting off some steam rather than taking it out on the very nice folks here. You are a very nice Monster and it’s a dirty shame that bad things happen to good Monsters. Take care tom "Little Monster" <r…@localhost.localdomain> wrote in message

Response:

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 17:15:31 +0000, the world was enlightented by fallout, unto whom the words are attributed: > Hi Monster, i’m really very sorry about your grandmother Monster. i am the > undisputed king of such things my friend. > On my birthday. > My foster father died. > His mother died. > My brother-in-law died > Janis Joplin died. > Every year now, my foster family members call me and ask who i’m going to > kill this year.

My deepest commiserations. > i’m really sorry i missed your birthday too Monster, i’ve been pretty > depressed as of late and i tend to get grouchy when depressed so i spent > some time in a.s.s. letting off some steam rather than taking it out on the > very nice folks here. > You are a very nice Monster and it’s a dirty shame that bad things happen to > good Monsters. > Take care > tom

Thanks Tom, you’re a star. Monster — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

Sent on Monday – Teranews lost it again For wishing me a happy b-day It was a sad one, for a start I do not like getting older, though I seem to sometimes be getting wiser (othertimes more stupid but mainly because, it was the day my grandmother died. She went into a hospice last weekend, having been very ill for a few years (but my, so active!) and so a couple of hours after I had the happy conversation with my mum on the phone, she rang again to tell me the sad news. So I am an unhappy monster. The funeral is next week, I am told. So now I have no grandparents – quite poingnant, the last two to die, both my grandads, I was not around, and having too much of a stressed time to really give the fact any thought. So yesterday brought home to me /their/ deaths too, long ago though they were. But I spent a big part of the day fitting a transfer/temperature/fan control panel to the ‘puter, and making some rubber gaskets (from inner tube no less) for the fans at the front and back to see if it would make them quieter. Well, it seems a little quieter. Well, life goes on… Monster — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk

Response:

Permalink · Leave a comment
In: Foster Family

Daughter is back!

Question:

Yesterday i was making xmas trees and daughter comes up the stairs to my studio. I hadn’t heard from her in a month. Honestly, I am just not in the frame of mind to deal with this right now. I just now have the entire house to myself all day from 7am to 3pm where I can work in peace and quiet. I am trying so hard to do well at my businesss and it seems every single time I get back on track, there is some problem that disrupts my schedule. The truth is that my family hinders me, not helps me. What I am saying is that I would like my daughter to stay here. I just don’t want the problems, disruptions or mess. Ok why don’t I get down to it. What is really bothering me about this. She shows up here with her 2 year old. She looks like hell. Her eyes are black. She has bruises on her arms. I ask her where the bruises came from. She tells me she has been shooting up heroin with that loser boyfriend for the past 2-3 weeks. The idiot that shot himself in the leg. She is crying and says she has probably lost her house and she doesn’t want to stay with loser bf anymore and she has lost her job. She says she wants to go back to the hospital. The thing is that the times I have let her come back here before, she doesn’t try to get back on track. Here is what happens. She will lay and around and sleep for a few days. Then she starts running around. Next thing she is going out with the loser baby’s father again. He starts calling the house and being verbally abusive. I tell her I don’t want it in my house. She leaves big messes from her and her son for me to clean up. I ask her nicely to clean up after herself and her child. She gets defensive about it. Eventaully there is a big blow up because of her asshole bf violating my boundaries and then she leaves. This exact scenario happened at least 4 or 5 times. It majorly disrupts my life for several months. Then after she leaves again, it take me a week to clean up the messes she left, it take me a week or 2 to get my nerves calmed back down. I really truly want to help her but she has to help herself. She needs to stay away from these creeps and stay off the drugs and take action to do something else with her life. Now I have not told her about my hospital episode a little over a week ago. I am not mentally able to deal with a lot of problems right now. I am supposed to be de stressing and trying to relax. I am trying to work on my own problems right now. My husband doesnt’ want her here at all. My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! Loev, Ms Patns

Response:

>My husband doesnt’ want her here at all. >My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all!

Your daughter seems almost beyond repair. This crap sounds straight out of an Irvine Welsh novel. Which makes for entertaining reading, but in real life is not good at all. I don’t blame you for wanting to run away!

Response:

On 06 Sep 2002 01:55:06 GMT, trance…@aol.com (Trance909) wrote: >>My husband doesnt’ want her here at all. >>My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! >Your daughter seems almost beyond repair. This crap sounds straight out of an >Irvine Welsh novel. Which makes for entertaining reading, but in real life is >not good at all. I don’t blame you for wanting to run away!

Tahnk you! It is funny how I have gotten to a point in my life where I just want to be left alone. Loev, Ms Pnats

Response:

its all a fake story hehe, dont belive the hype. "Wry Bread" <wrybr…@nwlink.REMOVEcom> wrote in message

news:une6g3fnuaa59a@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mz Pants <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote: > Jesus Christ. You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. If you let this > continue, someone is gonna end up dead. I would threaten to take custody of > the 2 yr old until such time that she gets into rehab, and basically > ex-communicate her until she does so.

Response:

"Mz Pants" <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote in message

news:3d75f8e1.5010653@news.alt.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yesterday i was making xmas trees and daughter comes up the stairs to > my studio. I hadn’t heard from her in a month. > Honestly, I am just not in the frame of mind to deal with this right > now. > I just now have the entire house to myself all day from 7am to 3pm > where I can work in peace and quiet. > I am trying so hard to do well at my businesss and it seems every > single time I get back on track, there is some problem that disrupts > my schedule. The truth is that my family hinders me, not helps me. > What I am saying is that I would like my daughter to stay here. I > just don’t want the problems, disruptions or mess. > Ok why don’t I get down to it. What is really bothering me about > this. > She shows up here with her 2 year old. She looks like hell. Her eyes > are black. She has bruises on her arms. I ask her where the bruises > came from. She tells me she has been shooting up heroin with that > loser boyfriend for the past 2-3 weeks. The idiot that shot himself > in the leg. > She is crying and says she has probably lost her house and she doesn’t > want to stay with loser bf anymore and she has lost her job. She says > she wants to go back to the hospital. > The thing is that the times I have let her come back here before, she > doesn’t try to get back on track. Here is what happens. > She will lay and around and sleep for a few days. Then she starts > running around. Next thing she is going out with the loser baby’s > father again. He starts calling the house and being verbally abusive. > I tell her I don’t want it in my house. She leaves big messes from > her and her son for me to clean up. I ask her nicely to clean up > after herself and her child. She gets defensive about it. > Eventaully there is a big blow up because of her asshole bf violating > my boundaries and then she leaves. > This exact scenario happened at least 4 or 5 times. > It majorly disrupts my life for several months. Then after she leaves > again, it take me a week to clean up the messes she left, it take me a > week or 2 to get my nerves calmed back down. > I really truly want to help her but she has to help herself. She > needs to stay away from these creeps and stay off the drugs and take > action to do something else with her life. > Now I have not told her about my hospital episode a little over a week > ago. I am not mentally able to deal with a lot of problems right now. > I am supposed to be de stressing and trying to relax. I am trying to > work on my own problems right now. > My husband doesnt’ want her here at all. > My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! > Loev, > Ms Patns

Hi, i know this sounds bad/but/, if your daughter is old enough to have a child and shoot up heroin she is old enough to take care of her own messed up life. Tell her about your hospital stay and tell her you cannot take on her life anymore. You have a husband that doesn’t want her or her loser bf there and if you allow her to come back in after 4 or 5 times it’s only going to end up costing you your marriage and your health. If she is as bad as you say she also should not have her child. What kind of life can he expect with a mother and father like that? You would be doing him a favor if you called child welfare about her and had the child removed from her custody, you know that the child is going to end up dead unless she changes her ways and it doesn’t sound as if that’s going to happen. Don’t take her in, i’m sorry if this sounds mean or cold but you have a life too and it’s not fair for her to steal your life while she screws up hers and her child’s too. Good luck either way. tom

Response:

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 01:41:07 -0700, "Wry Bread" <wrybr…@nwlink.REMOVEcom> wrote: >Mz Pants <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote: >Jesus Christ. You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. If you let this >continue, someone is gonna end up dead. I would threaten to take custody of >the 2 yr old until such time that she gets into rehab, and basically >ex-communicate her until she does so.

It is very difficult to get custody here. Loev, Ms Pants

Response:

Mz Pants <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote:

Jesus Christ. You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. If you let this continue, someone is gonna end up dead. I would threaten to take custody of the 2 yr old until such time that she gets into rehab, and basically ex-communicate her until she does so.

Response:

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:50:46 -0700, "Kali" <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote: >"Average Joe" <average…@mysolution.ws> wrote in message >news:al5lqj$9no$0@pita.alt.net… >> you suggested pro-activeness and not reactiveness, pro-activeness >> implies a first resort not a last resort, I’ll accept the possibility >> that you overlooked this accidentally instead of maliciously although >> someone trained in the field who particpates in the field does have a >> responsibility to not overlook things, in either case apologize to the >> lady for steering her astray >The "lady" in question is a self-professed troll and usenet performance >artist (whatever that means) which you can easily verify on Google. She >posts strange things all over the place.

You noticed! >If the problem is even real >(which I my doubts about) and she specifically only wanted advice from >those trained in psychology or psychotherapy, then I’d be curious to know >why she would be cross-posting such an off-topic matter to groups relating >to shyness and depression instead of on-topic groups such as those >relating to domestic violence. Perhaps you should be asking her for an >apology for wasting your time.

If I was trolling I would have crossposted to dozens of froups not just 3. I picked the 3 froups because of the intelligent people who read those froups and they might have something helpful. Loev, Ms Pants

Response:

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 00:49:34 -0400, ^reaper^ <knock…@deaths.door> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– >Hash: SHA1 >In article <unc5j2o1278…@corp.supernews.com>, >Kali <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote: >> "Mz Pants" <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote in message >> news:3d75f8e1.5010653@news.alt.net… >> > She shows up here with her 2 year old. She looks like hell. Her >> > eyes are black. She has bruises on her arms. I ask her where >> > the bruises came from. She tells me she has been shooting up >> > heroin with that loser boyfriend for the past 2-3 weeks. The >> > idiot that shot himself in the leg. >> > I really truly want to help her but she has to help herself. She >> > needs to stay away from these creeps and stay off the drugs and >> > take action to do something else with her life. >> Perhaps you need to get a little tougher in this situation. >> Whether you let her stay or not, when she does go back, call >> children’s protective services and they will most likely take her >> child away from her. She’s not exactly a fit mother and maybe the >> shock would motivate her to get straightened out to get custody >> back. Or if that doesn’t motivate her, at least your grandchild >> won’t have to grow up like that. >Dammit Kali, why’dya hafta go say that?! CPS is the last place a kid >should be. If Mz "troll" Pants is that concerned, she oughta jest >file fer custody herself (or try ta get a relative ta help out), >steada gettin them overworked underpaid idjit childsavers involved. >Fsck, once them people’s involved they’re laik thet annoying relative >who can’t take a hint thet they’re welcome’s run out. Thet, and >they’d jest ship her off ta some roach infested ghetto where dem >foster mom’s collect da kids jest ta git their foodstamps.

Agreed! I don’t want my grandson living in a roach infested ghetto or ignoratnt trailer trash with strangers. I would rather have him live with me in my quiet safe rural home. Anyway, the past 2 days have been pretty fun for me and the grandson. We played all day and both went to bed tired and satisfied with life. The boy is very smart. He has a huge vocab for being 2. Loev, Ms Pants

Response:

"Average Joe" <average…@mysolution.ws> wrote in message

news:al5lqj$9no$0@pita.alt.net… > you suggested pro-activeness and not reactiveness, pro-activeness > implies a first resort not a last resort, I’ll accept the possibility > that you overlooked this accidentally instead of maliciously although > someone trained in the field who particpates in the field does have a > responsibility to not overlook things, in either case apologize to the > lady for steering her astray

The "lady" in question is a self-professed troll and usenet performance artist (whatever that means) which you can easily verify on Google. She posts strange things all over the place. If the problem is even real (which I my doubts about) and she specifically only wanted advice from those trained in psychology or psychotherapy, then I’d be curious to know why she would be cross-posting such an off-topic matter to groups relating to shyness and depression instead of on-topic groups such as those relating to domestic violence. Perhaps you should be asking her for an apology for wasting your time.

Response:

"Average Joe" <average…@mysolution.ws> wrote in news:al5lqj$9no$0 @pita.alt.net: > Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. > It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. > – -William Pitt, British prime-minister (1759-1806)

I’m not a homosexual, I just married Brad for the money. -William Pitt, (1976-?)

Response:

"Mz Pants" <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote in message

news:3d75f8e1.5010653@news.alt.net… > She shows up here with her 2 year old. She looks like hell. Her eyes > are black. She has bruises on her arms. I ask her where the bruises > came from. She tells me she has been shooting up heroin with that > loser boyfriend for the past 2-3 weeks. The idiot that shot himself > in the leg. > I really truly want to help her but she has to help herself. She > needs to stay away from these creeps and stay off the drugs and take > action to do something else with her life.

Perhaps you need to get a little tougher in this situation. Whether you let her stay or not, when she does go back, call children’s protective services and they will most likely take her child away from her. She’s not exactly a fit mother and maybe the shock would motivate her to get straightened out to get custody back. Or if that doesn’t motivate her, at least your grandchild won’t have to grow up like that.

Response:

My gut is telling me that this has absoultely nothing to do with shyness. For the 5th (6th?) time, please stop trolling here. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! > Loev, > Ms Patns

Response:

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:15:22 +0000 (UTC), "Mr. Teatime" <mr_teatime…@hotmail.com> wrote: >My gut is telling me that this has absoultely nothing to do with shyness. >For the 5th (6th?) time, please stop trolling here. >> My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! >> Loev, >> Ms Patns

Is there a reason you have crossposted this to so many groups? Kenster/MM/Dumpster/KensDead/OBL/SOB/Ken/BBM/WMM/AM/PM CadaverKid/MOE/Undead

Response:

"Kenster" <memorysu…@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3d763303.341875265@news.verizon.net… > On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:15:22 +0000 (UTC), "Mr. Teatime" > <mr_teatime…@hotmail.com> wrote: > >My gut is telling me that this has absoultely nothing to do with shyness. > >For the 5th (6th?) time, please stop trolling here. > >> My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! > >> Loev, > >> Ms Patns > Is there a reason you have crossposted this to so many groups?

There is a reason. She freely admits to being a troll.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 "Kali" <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote in message

news:unc5j2o1278k43@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mz Pants" <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote in message > news:3d75f8e1.5010653@news.alt.net… > > She shows up here with her 2 year old. She looks like hell. Her eyes > > are black. She has bruises on her arms. I ask her where the bruises > > came from. She tells me she has been shooting up heroin with that > > loser boyfriend for the past 2-3 weeks. The idiot that shot himself > > in the leg. > > I really truly want to help her but she has to help herself. She > > needs to stay away from these creeps and stay off the drugs and take > > action to do something else with her life. > Perhaps you need to get a little tougher in this situation. Whether you let > her stay or not, when she does go back, call children’s protective services > and they will most likely take her child away from her. She’s not exactly a > fit mother and maybe the shock would motivate her to get straightened out to > get custody back. Or if that doesn’t motivate her, at least your grandchild > won’t have to grow up like that.

something only someone who financially benefits by child protective services would say perhaps her daughter would be doomed to a lifetime of remorse, regret and depression, never achieve the "motivation" to pursue a normal life and as far as the child goes, just where do you get the idea of foster care is so great? stories of abuse, lack of real love, lack of commitment ala lack of funds spent to generate income for the child such as college expoenses or means of transportation, you’re suggesting dooming the child to a second class upbringing brakeing up families is not the goal of psychotherapy last time I checked, it is a LAST RESORT and you would behoove yourself professionally to refer to it as such my advice, explain to your daughter the repurcussions of her behavior, if she is not willing to heed the warnings of personal dangers to drugs she may be willing to heed the warning that there are financially motivated "professionals" more than willing to take her child away as which Kali is evidence of, role modeling is also effective, very sobering to speak to someone who has suffered such repurcussions I know many women who have lost their children due to their lifestyles, most often drugs are involved, usually they get caught for some petty theft or drug possession and the authorities take their kids away, sometimes the grandparents are lucky enough to get custody – — Copyright 2002, Average Joe, permission to distribute with recognition of source. All of my ideas are founded upon the basis for my ideas which is most frequently a result of other’s ideas. my solution to the world’s problems www.mysolution.ws Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. – -William Pitt, British prime-minister (1759-1806) —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 5.5.3a iQA/AwUBPXY10e1VaycunBoEEQL5XQCfVXLlZj1GxYiYBD2SgRS+MuSPocEAnjmC o9lMgsNKT/XHO73LfulHdhXH =teQ0 —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

"Average Joe" <average…@mysolution.ws> wrote in message

news:al5cll$hmq$0@pita.alt.net… > something only someone who financially benefits by child protective > services would say > perhaps her daughter would be doomed to a lifetime of remorse, regret > and depression, never achieve the "motivation" to pursue a normal life

Better than that forcing her child to live with a father who beats her mother on a routine basis and both parents being high on heroin all the time. > and as far as the child goes, just where do you get the idea of foster > care is so great? stories of abuse, lack of real love, lack of > commitment ala lack of funds spent to generate income for the child > such as college expoenses or means of transportation, you’re > suggesting dooming the child to a second class upbringing

Where do you get the idea that living with a violent father and a drug-addicted mother such as the child has is better? Surely you’re not suggesting that growing up watching the parents do drugs and seeing the mother beaten up regularly is a first class upbringing? The last time the father had an accident with his gun, he shot himself in the presence of the child. Next time it may be the child who gets shot. Surely you don’t think this is a good thing? > brakeing up families is not the goal of psychotherapy last time I > checked, it is a LAST RESORT and you would behoove yourself > professionally to refer to it as such

It is the last resort. The first preference when a child is removed is that CPS attempts to give custody to a family member. In fact, sometimes CPS tries way to hard to keep families together. I see way too many news stories where CPS investigated and left the children in the home or returned them to parents who later beat and killed them.

Response:

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:47:10 -0700, "Kali" <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Kenster" <memorysu…@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message >news:3d763303.341875265@news.verizon.net… >> On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:15:22 +0000 (UTC), "Mr. Teatime" >> <mr_teatime…@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >My gut is telling me that this has absoultely nothing to do with >shyness. >> >For the 5th (6th?) time, please stop trolling here. >> >> My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! >> >> Loev, >> >> Ms Patns >> Is there a reason you have crossposted this to so many groups? >There is a reason. She freely admits to being a troll.

Oh, well that explains it then…..Thanks…:) Kenster/MM/Dumpster/KensDead/OBL/SOB/Ken/BBM/WMM/AM/PM CadaverKid/MOE/Undead

Response:

do the New York Detox method. Tie her up in the basement for several weeks and she will get heroin out cold turkey. "Mz Pants" <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote in message

Response:

its a troll but I find them entertaining. "Mr. Teatime" <mr_teatime…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:al5829$fe3$1@helle.btinternet.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My gut is telling me that this has absoultely nothing to do with shyness. > For the 5th (6th?) time, please stop trolling here. > > My gut is telling me to pack my stuff and run far away from them all! > > Loev, > > Ms Patns

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 "Kali" <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote in message

news:uncf6nvj09q01@corp.supernews.com… > It is the last resort.

you suggested pro-activeness and not reactiveness, pro-activeness implies a first resort not a last resort, I’ll accept the possibility that you overlooked this accidentally instead of maliciously although someone trained in the field who particpates in the field does have a responsibility to not overlook things, in either case apologize to the lady for steering her astray – — Copyright 2002, Average Joe, permission to distribute with recognition of source. All of my ideas are founded upon the basis for my ideas which is most frequently a result of other’s ideas. my solution to the world’s problems www.mysolution.ws Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. – -William Pitt, British prime-minister (1759-1806) —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: 5.5.3a iQA/AwUBPXZQju1VaycunBoEEQLpwACgy/73ONDHabrWMYRCoSybmRqjWEwAoJ9z 4FAX9GPKKWAt+lqn/4dhKpm8 =YQry —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:27:31 -0400, "Average Joe" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<average…@mysolution.ws> wrote: >—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– >Hash: SHA1 >"Kali" <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote in message >news:uncf6nvj09q01@corp.supernews.com… >> It is the last resort. >you suggested pro-activeness and not reactiveness, pro-activeness >implies a first resort not a last resort, I’ll accept the possibility >that you overlooked this accidentally instead of maliciously although >someone trained in the field who particpates in the field does have a >responsibility to not overlook things, in either case apologize to the >lady for steering her astray

Thanks Joe for your level headed replies. Loev, Ms Pants

Response:

For the 50 billionth time, if you don’t like my posts don’t read them. No one is forcing you to read my posts and reply to them. Loev, Ms Pnats

Response:

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 14:25:58 -0400, "Hugo Drax" <hugod…@draxindustries.com> wrote: >do the New York Detox method. Tie her up in the basement for several weeks >and she will get heroin out cold turkey.

I wonder how long it takes to become addicted to heroin. Maybe I should go ask FANG. Loev, Ms Pnats

Response:

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 12:33:25 -0400, "Average Joe" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<average…@mysolution.ws> wrote: >—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– >Hash: SHA1 >"Kali" <ka…@hotpop.com_REMOVE> wrote in message >news:unc5j2o1278k43@corp.supernews.com… >> "Mz Pants" <leg…@myownmind.com> wrote in message >> news:3d75f8e1.5010653@news.alt.net… >> > She shows up here with her 2 year old. She looks like hell. Her >eyes >> > are black. She has bruises on her arms. I ask her where the >bruises >> > came from. She tells me she has been shooting up heroin with that >> > loser boyfriend for the past 2-3 weeks. The idiot that shot >himself >> > in the leg. >> > I really truly want to help her but she has to help herself. She >> > needs to stay away from these creeps and stay off the drugs and >take >> > action to do something else with her life. >> Perhaps you need to get a little tougher in this situation. Whether >you let >> her stay or not, when she does go back, call children’s protective >services >> and they will most likely take her child away from her. She’s not >exactly a >> fit mother and maybe the shock would motivate her to get >straightened out to >> get custody back. Or if that doesn’t motivate her, at least your >grandchild >> won’t have to grow up like that. >something only someone who financially benefits by child protective >services would say

Good point. >perhaps her daughter would be doomed to a lifetime of remorse, regret >and depression, never achieve the "motivation" to pursue a normal life

True. >and as far as the child goes, just where do you get the idea of foster >care is so great? stories of abuse, lack of real love, lack of >commitment ala lack of funds spent to generate income for the child >such as college expoenses or means of transportation, you’re >suggesting dooming the child to a second class upbringing

I never have heard of foster care being so great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->brakeing up families is not the goal of psychotherapy last time I >checked, it is a LAST RESORT and you would behoove yourself >professionally to refer to it as such >my advice, explain to your daughter the repurcussions of her behavior, >if she is not willing to heed the warnings of personal dangers to >drugs she may be willing to heed the warning that there are >financially motivated "professionals" more than willing to take her >child away as which Kali is evidence of, role modeling is also >effective, very sobering to speak to someone who has suffered such >repurcussions >I know many women who have lost their children due to their >lifestyles, most often drugs are involved, usually they get caught for >some petty theft or drug possession and the authorities take their >kids away, sometimes the grandparents are lucky enough to get custody

She is going to her therapist on Friday. I may go with her this one time. Loev, Ms Pnta

Response:

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In: Foster Parents

AlexandriaVA.Soc.Serv.=Murdere rs

Question:

For some reason this post keeps disappearing. Anyone who has not seen the NBC special about Katelyn who was murdered by her mother’s boyfriend because Alexandria Virgina’s social service agency spitefully and knowingly put the 3 year old girl back into an abusive home, find out the story. All the social workers got for sending this child to her death was 2 weeks suspension which they are appealing. The man who beat Katelyn to death only got 18 years, less years than bruises on the child’s body. This was all done in the name of blood ties being more important than the foster parents who wanted to adopt her.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For some reason this post keeps disappearing. Anyone who has not seen the NBC special about Katelyn who was murdered by her mother’s boyfriend because Alexandria Virgina’s social service agency spitefully and knowingly put the 3 year old girl back into an abusive home, find out the story. All the social workers got for sending this child to her death was 2 weeks suspension which they are appealing. The man who beat Katelyn to death only got 18 years, less years than bruises on the child’s body. This was all done in the name of blood ties being more important than the foster parents who wanted to adopt her.

Aol is having some probs today. This is the 3rd time your post has shown up though.

Response:

For some reason this post keeps disappearing.

Probably a mercy killing. Ghoulagirl. "He went after her like she was made out of ham!" – From "Best In Show"

Response:

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In: Foster Parents

Many Denominations Face Sex Allegations – but ******

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Once again- why single out one denomination? Why not report the backgroundsof all 8 clergy? When is the last time you confessed to a bus driver or a Lutheran minister? Priests have always been held to a higher standard, by the church and the world. They knew that going in. Dawn Once again… why single out one demoninations? Why not report the backgrounds of all 8 clergy?

Thanks for the try… I thought it was a valid question, but guess Dawn didn’t catch it. :-/

Response:

The real question is. Why are the right wing spinners baiting Catholics? So much more fun. The Catholics take themselves so seriously and have absolutely no sense of humour. One could as easily say that as the Protestants in America outnumber Catholics three to one, that Protestants commit three times as many crimes against children as do Catholics. Actually, the statistics indicate just the opposite. Might be all that obsession with Infant Jesus and "Virgin" Mary.

Do you have any reference to "these statistics?" "There are lies, damn lies, and then there are statistics…"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – programs. We have no scouts (the only scout group in our town is sponsored by the Kinsmen), no teen outreach and only 3 altar servers who never show up for training when it’s scheduled. Our only priest is 74 and very much the administrator. The only Church in our town (pop. 7500 + or -) with a very active youth program is the Pentecostal Church. Suzanne The population of your town is almost the population of my church. There are 2 priests – one old in his 60’s – the pastor, one younger in his 30’s. He does the home visits to try to convince boys to enter the priesthood. In fact when my son complained to me that this priest was even chatting about this at lunch I went to the pastor. I realize they need priests but that was ridiculous. I did eventually pull my kids out last year. This is a huge parish though with many groups. — Dawn Why is it ridiculous for priests to speak to boys about vocations? Why is it ridiculous for priests to encourage boys to listen to God and see if they hear themselves called to the priesthood? Because my son said he was not interested and the priest continued. My son went though many stages. When he was very young the priest was ‘cool’ and that is what he wanted. He even studied latin. Now that he is older he wants to be a doctor. At least he has use for that latin class In any case this priest doesn’t accept no and many parents have complained. Of course, you will never admit he was wrong to do that, but he was. Dawn

So the priest is a good salesman. A good salesman never takes no for an answer. Rather he trys a new take to get his point across. In this case, the priest is "selling" the idea of vocations to a child who is still confused about what he wants to do. Reading your posts, I have no doubt you poured all the vitrol and hatred for the priesthood you have into your son’s ears. You shouldn’t have worried. Against your influence against the priesthood, the priest at school never had a chance.

Response:

Why is it ridiculous for priests to speak to boys about vocations? Why is it ridiculous for priests to encourage boys to listen to God and see if they hear themselves called to the priesthood?

How would you like it if gay and lesbian groups went around trying to convince your kids to join them ? How is it any different when the Church, a known pedophile group, tries to brainwash your children into joining ? We should have legistlation against this.

Response:

Hello Suzanne, I think it depends on the priest, and his motives. He can probably spend little or more time as he chooses. In my parish, priests are active with the boy scouts, with training of altar servers, and other ministries within the parish such as teen outreach programs. – Dawn

Response:

programs. We have no scouts (the only scout group in our town is sponsored by the Kinsmen), no teen outreach and only 3 altar servers who never show up for training when it’s scheduled. Our only priest is 74 and very much the administrator. The only Church in our town (pop. 7500 + or -) with a very active youth program is the Pentecostal Church. Suzanne

Response:

Once again- why single out one denomination? Why not report the

backgroundsof all 8 clergy? When is the last time you confessed to a bus driver or a Lutheran minister? Priests have always been held to a higher standard, by the church and the world. They knew that going in. Dawn

Response:

The real question is. Why are the right wing spinners baiting Catholics?

So much more fun. The Catholics take themselves so seriously and have absolutely no sense of humour. One could as easily say that as the Protestants in America outnumber Catholics three to one, that Protestants commit three times as many crimes against children as do Catholics.

Actually, the statistics that began this thread indicate just the opposite. Might be all that obsession with Infant Jesus and "Virgin" Mary.

Response:

The real question is. Why are the right wing spinners baiting Catholics?

Actually, the statistics indicate just the opposite. Might be all that obsession with Infant Jesus and "Virgin" Mary.

Response:

The population of your town is almost the population of my church. There are 2 priests – one old in his 60’s – the pastor, one younger in his 30’s. He does the home visits to try to convince boys to enter the priesthood. In fact when my son complained to me that this priest was even chatting about this at lunch I went to the pastor. I realize they need priests but that was ridiculous. I did eventually pull my kids out last year. This is a huge parish though with many groups. — Dawn

Response:

Once again… why single out one demoninations? Why not report the backgrounds of all 8 clergy? Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com With NINE Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well who should we be more worried about? Priests come into contact with more kids than many others mentioned. It always surprises me to hear that. Our parish must be very different. Our priest’s main contact with kids is at Mass, when they are surrounded by their parents or catechists. Suzanne Hello Suzanne, I think it depends on the priest, and his motives. He can probably spend little or more time as he chooses. In my parish, priests are active with the boy scouts, with training of altar servers, and other ministries within the parish such as teen outreach programs. We have no scouts (the only scout group in our town is sponsored by the Kinsmen), no teen outreach and only 3 altar servers who never show up for training when it’s scheduled. Our only priest is 74 and very much the administrator. The only Church in our town (pop. 7500 + or -) with a very active youth program is the Pentecostal Church. Suzanne The population of your town is almost the population of my church. There are 2 priests – one old in his 60’s – the pastor, one younger in his 30’s. He does the home visits to try to convince boys to enter the priesthood. In fact when my son complained to me that this priest was even chatting about this at lunch I went to the pastor. I realize they need priests but that was ridiculous. I did eventually pull my kids out last year. This is a huge parish though with many groups. — Dawn Why is it ridiculous for priests to speak to boys about vocations? Why is it ridiculous for priests to encourage boys to listen to God and see if they hear themselves called to the priesthood?

Because my son said he was not interested and the priest continued. My son went though many stages. When he was very young the priest was ‘cool’ and that is what he wanted. He even studied latin. Now that he is older he wants to be a doctor. At least he has use for that latin class In any case this priest doesn’t accept no and many parents have complained. Of course, you will never admit he was wrong to do that, but he was. Dawn

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well who should we be more worried about? Priests come into contact with more kids than many others mentioned. It always surprises me to hear that. Our parish must be very different. Our priest’s main contact with kids is at Mass, when they are surrounded by their parents or catechists. Suzanne Hello Suzanne, I think it depends on the priest, and his motives. He can probably spend little or more time as he chooses. In my parish, priests are active with the boy scouts, with training of altar servers, and other ministries within the parish such as teen outreach programs. We have no scouts (the only scout group in our town is sponsored by the Kinsmen), no teen outreach and only 3 altar servers who never show up for training when it’s scheduled. Our only priest is 74 and very much the administrator. The only Church in our town (pop. 7500 + or -) with a very active youth program is the Pentecostal Church. Suzanne The population of your town is almost the population of my church. There are 2 priests – one old in his 60’s – the pastor, one younger in his 30’s. He does the home visits to try to convince boys to enter the priesthood. In fact when my son complained to me that this priest was even chatting about this at lunch I went to the pastor. I realize they need priests but that was ridiculous. I did eventually pull my kids out last year. This is a huge parish though with many groups. — Dawn

Why is it ridiculous for priests to speak to boys about vocations? Why is it ridiculous for priests to encourage boys to listen to God and see if they hear themselves called to the priesthood? Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com – Still Only $9.95 – http://www.uncensored-news.com With NINE Servers In California And Texas – The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Response:

Many Denominations Face Sex Allegations – but experts ponder the prevalence of child molestation accusations against Catholic priests. By Michael Paulson March 13th 2002 The Boston Globe The scourge of clergy sexual abuse has afflicted virtually every religious denomination. In recent years, rabbis, ministers, and gurus have all been charged with molesting children. Hare Krishna temples are filing for bankruptcy because of the anticipated cost of abuse legislation, and Jehovah’s Witnesses are facing a first round of law suits. But the Catholic church has been hit with many more allegations of clergy sexual abuse than any other faith. "There are absolutely no Protestant equivalents" said Anson D. Shupe, a sociologist who researches clergy misconduct. " If I could find some spectacular cases, that would help my career, but I can’t. You don’t have rapacious serial predators, and the Protestant establishment doesn’t tolerate it the way the Catholic establishment has." Shupe’s view is widely, but not universally, held among scholars of clergy sexual abuse. And the statistics seem clear: Scholars say as many as 2,000 priests have been accused nationwide. By contrast, Protestant and non-Christian denominations have had so few reported cases that their leaders can generally count them on one hand. A 1999 study of clergy misconduct, in which academics with the Hartford Institute for Religion Research spoke with 76 ministers who had, over the last 40 years, served 532 different congregations in 14 different denominations, turned up no instances of sexual abuse of children in these Protestant congregations studied. Snips: There are no comprehensive studies of clergy sexual abuse. The Catholic hierarchy has stonewalled any attempts to do any kind of study on this issue. How do so many priests abuse? One possible explanation — priests are more able to abuse children because of the extraordinary amount of authority and reverence they enjoy within the church. Protestant and Jewish clergy are generally less powerful and can be fired by lay people. Priests also may have more access to children and places in which to abuse them. Many priests live in rectories, which directly adjoin churches, and they sometimes have more involvement with children than other clergy. Most Protestant denominations for example, do not have child altar servers. The Hare Krishnas have been far more open than the Catholic church in responding to the crisis. The Hindu sect published a detailed expose of it’s own wrongdoing, written by a Middlebury College sociologist, in it’s official journal in 1998. A year earlier it has set up a child protection office to investigate and report instances of abuse. For entire article go to : http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/sexabuse/related/031302_abuse.htm

"I really wouldn’t care if they found out that a third of the population of priests was not only molesting children but then killing and eating them as well. I just really don’t care."

Response:

Well who should we be more worried about? Priests come into contact with more kids than many others mentioned.

It always surprises me to hear that. Our parish must be very different. Our priest’s main contact with kids is at Mass, when they are surrounded by their parents or catechists. Suzanne

Response:

yep – those bus drivers or teachers or foster parents don’t see kids much, eh?

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Denominations Face Sex Allegations – but experts ponder the prevalence of child molestation accusations against Catholic priests. The local news reported on the ‘Candyman’ internet child pornography story last night, saying that there were 2 Catholic priests involved as well as "6other non-Catholic clergy". That’s a strange way to report it, by singlingout one denomination. But I shouldn’t be surprised. Well who should we be more worried about? Priests come into contact with more kids than many others mentioned.

Once again- why single out one denomination? Why not report the backgrounds of all 8 clergy?

Response:

The real question is. Why are the right wing spinners baiting Catholics? One could as easily say that as the Protestants in America outnumber Catholics three to one, that Protestants commit three times as many crimes against children as do Catholics. zionism=$=racism.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many Denominations Face Sex Allegations – but experts ponder the prevalence of child molestation accusations against Catholic priests. The local news reported on the ‘Candyman’ internet child pornography story last night, saying that there were 2 Catholic priests involved as well as "6 other non-Catholic clergy". Well, I guess that the non-Catholic clergy made it newsworthy.

Response:

Many Denominations Face Sex Allegations – but experts ponder the prevalence of child molestation accusations against Catholic priests. The local news reported on the ‘Candyman’ internet child pornography story last night, saying that there were 2 Catholic priests involved as well as "6 other non-Catholic clergy".

Well, I guess that the non-Catholic clergy made it newsworthy.

Response:

"6other non-Catholic clergy". That’s a strange way to report it, by singlingout one denomination. But I shouldn’t be surprised. Well who should we be more worried about? Priests come into contact with more kids than many others mentioned. It’s nice to know they are visiting child porn sites! I am happy they arrested them before they went on to the real thing — Dawn

Response:

How many more times are you going to post this misleading and COPYRIGHTED article? The percentage of misconduct among priests is NO higher than in any

otherchurch, other profession, or the population at large. Send your mail to the Boston Globe. I know for a fact that they check all sources thoroughly. No one asked you to read the article did they? In any case,it was completely true, even though you don’t like it. Dawn

Response:

How many more times are you going to post this misleading and COPYRIGHTED article? The percentage of misconduct among priests is NO higher than in any other church, other profession, or the population at large.

Response:

Many Denominations Face Sex Allegations – but experts ponder the prevalence of child molestation accusations against Catholic priests.

The local news reported on the ‘Candyman’ internet child pornography story last night, saying that there were 2 Catholic priests involved as well as "6 other non-Catholic clergy". That’s a strange way to report it, by singling out one denomination. But I shouldn’t be surprised.

Response:

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In: Foster Parents

Should Akids bioCulture Be taught to them?

Question:

I’m sure you said yak-ee-dah (phonetic!) many times! Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michelle I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. IMO, (for what it’s worth I am, after all, just an adoptee) I think that both the adoptive and the biological heritages should be taught/honored/respected to the extent that the child shows an interest. Speaking only for myself I can tell you that I take great pride in my heritage from both my adoptive side (Italian and English) and my biological side (to the best of my knowledge 100% Irish). I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? My experiences resulted in a mixture of both. For example, although I am not religious by any means, on Christmas Eve I carry on the tradition that my Nona (adoptive) taught me and have the feast of the seven fishes, and when my husband and I married I added a sprig of shamrock to both my flowers and my husband’s boutonniere (biological/irish for luck and hard as hades to get in NJ in December!). Given the recent events that seem to have made

afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America? I can’t speak for anyone else, but although I am proud to be an American (we’re far from perfect, but this is my home) I also take great pride in my heritage (both bio and adoptive). It’s a part of whom I am…my DH jokes that I look like your "typical" Irishman (red hair, grey eyes, freckles that refuse to fade and so fair-skinned I glow in the dark),

You ’sound’ very familiar – do I know you? BG cook like an Italian (you’ll never go hungry in my home)

Yum yum. and have the sense of humour of an Englishman (very dry). What has happened hasn’t changed how I feel about my heritage one iota. I still plan on one day seeing the village in Italy where my Maternal (adoptive) grandparents are from (Gasperina, Calabria) the English Seacoast town my Paternal (adoptive) grandparents are from (Illfracombe) and Ireland draws me in a way I have never been able to explain (even before I knew I was Irish).

Let me know when you make your travel plans for Ireland! Helen Although I’ve never been to any of these places they will always be a part of who I am. Lisa F. Wilson-Gee

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Recent events haven’t changed my mind at all – if anything, they have reinforced my desire for my children to see themselves primarily as citizens of the world. Which world? Certainly not Planet Earth where such an attitude reveals one to be truly ignorant of reality.

Do you mean *Julia* is "truly ignorant of reality"????? Uh, I don’t *think* so, Don – far from it. I reckon Julia has it in the bag – she practices what she preaches, which (seems to me) to be based on a profound respect for all. If there were more like her, and less of the jingoistic, sabre-rattling types the world would be a far safer, healthier and more interesting place to be. Helen – Don

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ROTFLMWAO!! Oh yes, they all have a definition of welshness <g Adam

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Given that this ng extends beyond the boundaries of America, I would like to add the two penny worth. As an adoptee of (recently discovered) Welsh heritage in England, it fascinates me that I have maintained a fascination with Welsh identity since early childhood (through myth, story, history and political identity) despite the fact I did not know my origins. Having recently been connected with said origins simply affirms to me that heritage and culture are CRUCIAL to identity. Adam (non-american bastards are important too) Woo-hoo! Let’s hear it for adoptees of Welsh descent! I found out right before I went there (trip had already been planned long in advance). Of course, the disadvantage to that is that every single person in the pubs wanted to give me the "true meaning of being Welsh" in five hundred words or more. Awfully friendly people, and (at least when drinking) very fond indeed of the movie "Zulu." LOL! Michelle I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

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Given that this ng extends beyond the boundaries of America, I would like to add the two penny worth. [snip] despite the fact I did not know my origins. Having recently been connected with said origins simply affirms to me that heritage and culture are CRUCIAL to identity. Adam (non-american bastards are important too)

Agree totally with what you said, Adam. What about my case, though? I’m not Irish-American, I’m American-Irish! Conceived in the States by an American dad and Irish ‘mam’, and born and adopted in Ireland. Which part of American culture should I embrace – McDonalds, or Burger King, do you think? Anton (semi-American bastard!)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Given that this ng extends beyond the boundaries of America, I would like to add the two penny worth. [snip] despite the fact I did not know my origins. Having recently been connected with said origins simply affirms to me that heritage and culture are CRUCIAL to identity. Adam (non-american bastards are important too) Agree totally with what you said, Adam. What about my case, though? I’m not Irish-American, I’m American-Irish! Conceived in the States by an American dad and Irish ‘mam’, and born and adopted in Ireland. Which part of American culture should I embrace – McDonalds, or Burger King, do you think? Anton (semi-American bastard!)

Personally, I’d go for McDonalds for shakes, sundaes, and fries; Burger King for chicken, hamburgers, and fish. But the ultimate, IMO, is Jack in the Box. : ) Michelle

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Burger King – their chips (french fries) are better – or so I’ve been told. Helen Anton (semi-American bastard!)

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I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

A child adoptd from overseas should be exposed to as much of their native culture as humanly possible. Why? BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THEIR IDENTITY! My daughter will probably never know her b-pars. But, she knows she is Chinese American. Roy, if you plan to ignore your kids’ Russian heritage, you are doing them a horrible disservice. When kids reach adolescence, they have to figure out who they are. Lacking contact with b-pars, it is imperative that they have ongoing relationships with their birth-culture. I strongly advise that you take your kids to Russian language school, celebrate Russian holidays and above all, make contact with the Russian-Amrican population. Try to find Russian baby sitters for your kids. Find a group f other parents who adopted from Russia and participate in their activities. Of course, you could bury your head in the sand like Don and claim that the US is the only country that matters. Not a good idea. Gotta go. We’re taking Elizabeth to the Autumn Moon celebration (Chinse Thanksgiving, roughly) at a nearby state university this afternoon. Linda PS Why deprive yourself (let alone your kids) of learning about another country?

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Definately Burger King- the fries are better and their vegitarian burgers are microwaved so don’t get contaminated with animal fats

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IMO, (for what it’s worth I am, after all, just an adoptee) I think that both the adoptive and the biological heritages should be taught/honored/respected to the extent that the child shows an interest. Speaking only for myself I can tell you that I take great pride in my heritage from both my adoptive side (Italian and English) and my biological side (to the best of my knowledge 100% Irish). I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well?

My experiences resulted in a mixture of both. For example, although I am not religious by any means, on Christmas Eve I carry on the tradition that my Nona (adoptive) taught me and have the feast of the seven fishes, and when my husband and I married I added a sprig of shamrock to both my flowers and my husband’s boutonniere (biological/irish for luck and hard as hades to get in NJ in December!). Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

I can’t speak for anyone else, but although I am proud to be an American (we’re far from perfect, but this is my home) I also take great pride in my heritage (both bio and adoptive). It’s a part of whom I am…my DH jokes that I look like your "typical" Irishman (red hair, grey eyes, freckles that refuse to fade and so fair-skinned I glow in the dark), cook like an Italian (you’ll never go hungry in my home) and have the sense of humour of an Englishman (very dry). What has happened hasn’t changed how I feel about my heritage one iota. I still plan on one day seeing the village in Italy where my Maternal (adoptive) grandparents are from (Gasperina, Calabria) the English Seacoast town my Paternal (adoptive) grandparents are from (Illfracombe) and Ireland draws me in a way I have never been able to explain (even before I knew I was Irish). Although I’ve never been to any of these places they will always be a part of who I am. Lisa F. Wilson-Gee

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<snip Roy’s delusions about becoming a modern Nathan Hale by denying his children’s cultural background I think that any knowledge you can give a kid about anything is the most important gift you can give them. Michelle

Ayup.

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We do not "live now as citizens of The United States of America". My family celebrates Korean, India, Aussie and Chinese cultural events but the 4th of July passes unacknowledged. Recent events haven’t changed my mind at all – if anything, they have reinforced my desire for my children to see themselves primarily as citizens of the world. Julia

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I’m a good part Welsh as well, on my daddy’s side. Rys. Marley

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<snip My daughter is Chinese-American and I have been fortunate to have found childcare and school settings where she spends time with other Chinese-Americans–children and adults. I think it’s very healthy for her. You might have seen her school in Chinatown earlier this week when Pres. Bush visited. She’s in Kindergarten there. The president did not visit her class, which may be a good thing since as soon as she found out he was coming, she reminded me that we didn’t vote for

him! What is it they say? Out of the mouths of babes and lambs! (They’d *hang* you! <s) Helen Roberta mom to Juliette, 5.5, adopted 2/4/98 from China

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

I think that any knowledge you can give a kid about anything is the most important gift you can give them. Michelle

Response:

Given that this ng extends beyond the boundaries of America, I would like to add the two penny worth. As an adoptee of (recently discovered) Welsh heritage in England, it fascinates me that I have maintained a fascination with Welsh identity since early childhood (through myth, story, history and political identity) despite the fact I did not know my origins. Having recently been connected with said origins simply affirms to me that heritage and culture are CRUCIAL to identity. Adam (non-american bastards are important too)

Woo-hoo! Let’s hear it for adoptees of Welsh descent! I found out right before I went there (trip had already been planned long in advance). Of course, the disadvantage to that is that every single person in the pubs wanted to give me the "true meaning of being Welsh" in five hundred words or more. Awfully friendly people, and (at least when drinking) very fond indeed of the movie "Zulu." LOL! Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made

afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

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I agree. We Celts *know* these things – it’s bred in the bone! Helen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Adam (non-american bastards are important too) I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made

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Good thing, too! If we had to depend on an original birth certificate, we’d still be waiting to find out whether it’s even important at all! LOL! Michelle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Adam (non-american bastards are important too) I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America? — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

My daughter is Chinese-American and I have been fortunate to have found childcare and school settings where she spends time with other Chinese-Americans–children and adults. I think it’s very healthy for her. You might have seen her school in Chinatown earlier this week when Pres. Bush visited. She’s in Kindergarten there. The president did not visit her class, which may be a good thing since as soon as she found out he was coming, she reminded me that we didn’t vote for him! Roberta mom to Juliette, 5.5, adopted 2/4/98 from China

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I feel it is very important to share and teach with your achildren their biological heritage. I am raising a child that is going to grow up to be a black man in america. While I dont feel I can ever really know what that entails I can try to give him the tools and the knowledge of his heritage. We do all of the things mentioned in your post as well and make sure he has lots of real life people of his race to talk to and admire. We have also gone about learning a bit more of our heritage ( italian and polish). So we all love lasagna and pierogies now. . I just think it is important, and even if some dont think it is essential it couldnt hurt either so why not.

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[snip] Why not? I was born to and raised by my natural parents, and we did all the Italian and Irish stuff we could, just because. It certainly enriched our lives. Vicki

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

Even the Native Americans are not just "plain Americans" – they are from different tribal backgrounds and heritage, but they are very much "American". Is it not the most wonderful thing to be American AND whatever else is in your background? Irish Americans are often more traditionally Irish in certain ways than those back in Ireland, but they are also most definitely very American. I think it is absolutely vital for an internationally adopted child to be brought up with access to his/her cultural heritage. Support groups for whatever country the child is adopted from can be a great source of contact and information for the parents and the children. The Thais for example understand this very well, and the Thai adoption authorities organise The Native Land Visit for families with adopted Thai children to return there periodically in order to keep up the link between the children and their land of birth. Children should be able to feel proud about themselves and knowing where they have come from is part of that. It doesn’t take anything away from what other nationality they have acquired through adoption. Helen — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. [snip] Why not? I was born to and raised by my natural parents, and we did all the Italian and Irish stuff we could, just because. It certainly enriched our lives. Vicki

Piggybacking on Vicki’s post: Yes, an internationally adopted child should be taught at least something about the country and culture into which he was born. It’s part and parcel of establishing a sense of personal history, of being a part of a continuing process, as opposed to having been plucked like a doll from a cabbage patch. How much depends on the child and his interest level once he reaches a certain age. You might want to watch for the documentary "First Person Plural" on PBS, for a sense of what some Korean international adoptees feel on the subject. My son takes a good deal of pride in where he was born, in being able to tell people about it, and in telling of the friends and family he has their (birth and foster). He’s unusual in that he has met all of his immediate birth family, other than his father. This enhances his interest in the subject and the language, which he speaks well enough to have acted as our translator for part of our visit this year. J.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d like to hear others opinions on whether or not or to what extent a child adopted internationally or an American child of a different culture than their afamily should be taught their biological heritage. I’ve heard some American folk will go to great lengths to instill the culture of their foriegn born children’s biobeginnings in them. Things like celebrating the holidays of the countries they were born in or dressing in traditional clothing etc… Do domestically adopted kids also follow the religions and customs of their biological beginnings as well? Given the recent events that seem to have made afro-italian-polish-irish-islamic-chinese-japanese-german-english-french-r ussian-guatemalan-vietnamese- Americans – just plain Americans, does that change anyone’s mind about the importance of the countries or backgrounds their children may have come from as opposed to where they live now as citizens of The United States of America?

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In: Foster Parents

support for foster parents

Question:

How surprising… not. The ’support for foster parents’ is now through private mailing lists… in censored and secret areas where they can control who views what and who says what. This is because they have discovered the harm to their ’cause’ when their offensive conspiracies and collaborations are viewed and anyone can comment upon them. So like the cockroaches they are they scurry into the cracks and shadows when the lights are turned on. How typical of their kind. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wex Wimpy wrote: > If you are a Foster Parent looking for support you can go to > http://fostercare.org/forums/mail1.htm > These are some of the Foster Parent Mail Lists Available > or you can go to http://www.westworld.com/~barbara/ > Barbara has all kind of info for foster parents from online training > to a chat room there is also a page with links to with your state > agency. > http://www.fostercare.net/mlinks/links.html has tons of links > There also great info on http://www.fosterclub.com/grownups/index.html > There are more sites out there but these are the one I like. > I like this site to http://fostercare.org/FPHP/ The Foster Parents > Home Page . > If you go to > http://adoption.about.com/parenting/adoption/library/blglossary.htm > theres a Glossary of Adoption Terms to help with some new words foster > parents will hear > I would like to think Doug Quirmbach <do…@sprintmail.com>

– ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

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If you are a Foster Parent looking for support you can go to http://fostercare.org/forums/mail1.htm These are some of the Foster Parent Mail Lists Available or you can go to http://www.westworld.com/~barbara/ Barbara has all kind of info for foster parents from online training to a chat room there is also a page with links to with your state agency. http://www.fostercare.net/mlinks/links.html has tons of links There also great info on http://www.fosterclub.com/grownups/index.html There are more sites out there but these are the one I like. I like this site to http://fostercare.org/FPHP/ The Foster Parents Home Page . If you go to http://adoption.about.com/parenting/adoption/library/blglossary.htm theres a Glossary of Adoption Terms to help with some new words foster parents will hear I would like to think Doug Quirmbach <do…@sprintmail.com>

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In: Foster Parent Training

Yet another shooting

Question:

I know this is off topic but after yet another high school shooting I have really gotten myself worked up and would like to express an opinion =) Id want to say first that I in no way agree with what these kids are doing,it is never ok to just start shooting people because your angry. BUT I really do feel a bit of sympathy for them.How horribly these kids must have been treated at school by classmates to have done this.Now I am not very old but when I was in school I saw many kids teased everyday,I being a far less cruel person always took to becomeing friends with these kids.I saw what they went through,I was teased from time to time as well having been on the poor side of the tracks but never as bad as these other kids were.People would hit them,spit on them,kick them,push them,call them every hurtful cruel thing they could think of and even beat them up from time to time.People who didnt really feel it was right would let it happen because they were afraid of loseing popularity with their classmates and being treated in the same way.They were all to afraid of standing up for what they believed in that they let these most popular kids do anything they want. Im sure we’ve all seen a talk show at least once where the topic was "My kid is being harrassed at school" and the parents of the bully walk on stage and start babbaling about how it is only constructive critisism or that what their child is doing will benefit his vicitim by making him change the way he is or making him stronger.It disgusts me that a parent would stand up for their kid on such horrible behavior.What are they thinking??Are they simply to proud to admit that they messed up with raiseing their child so far?? Or do these people really honestly believe that what their child is doing is ok? My violent side steps out and makes me wanna slap them all silly until they start teaching their children the basic things that are needed to be a productive member of society. *sigh* I can see why these shooters turned and finally stood up for themselves,I dont agree with it in anyway but after seeing alot of this myself I can see why they did. Today for example the boy had intended to shoot 1 person in general they say,then they say that the star high school football player had been shot twice in the thigh he other 5 people had only been shot once and all below the knee. My take on what might have happened is that the big football start was teasing the boy and the boy went in there not to kill him really but to injure him,to take away his popularity maybe by taking away his ability to play football?? Just an idea But most times it seems to be the jocks or the rich kids who think they are better then the fat funny looking smart kid,and they seem to think that their status gives them the right to torture other people for no reason and on a very daily basis for years. To many parents out there who need to seek out a good parents training support group or something.Its ok to admit that what you are doing or have done with your child is wrong,if you can admit it then you can stop and try something else.If you go around trying not to think about it or pretending your doing it right then you end up with these problems. Getting parents involved more in school will do nothing….. Only changeing the way they deal with their children in private will give us hope. Also way to many parents just seem to pay absolutely no attention to what is going on in their kids lives,they naturally assume their child couldnt possibly be doing anything wrong and so they let their kids raise themselves(high school kids) They are PARENTS!!!! Their job is to guide their kids until their kids are adults and on their own,by then they should know whats right and wrong and be strong and confident enough to be good people and do fine on their own.At 16,17,18 they simply arent raised yet. IMO Ok Im gonna stop now hehe Thanks for letting me rant Tanya

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Did it work? For how long? In article <19990520220631.20828.00003…@ng-cf1.aol.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -litely…@aol.com (Litelyric) wrote: > In 6th grade there was a kid in my class who was a "nerd" – dressed very > formally in a little suit and bowtie every day while all the other boys wore > very casual clothes. The kids in the class all made fun of him, ostracized him > and teased him relentlessly. One day the teacher asked for a volunteer to run > an errand, and he picked the nerdy kid to go. > The teacher then told the class he had deliberately sent the nerdy kid away so > that he could address the rest of us. He lit into the class for being so mean, > told us how disappointed he was in us, and let us know he expected us to treat > everyone in the class with kindness and respect. We adored this teacher and I > know every last one of us felt really horrible for our bad behavior and for > disappointing this beloved teacher. > I still remember the entire incident to this day and bad as it made me feel, > I’m really glad this teacher cared enough to stand up for someone who couldn’t > stand up for himself. Wish there were more like him out there. > lite

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Did it work? For how long? Do you think it would work on kids now? In article <19990520220631.20828.00003…@ng-cf1.aol.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -litely…@aol.com (Litelyric) wrote: > In 6th grade there was a kid in my class who was a "nerd" – dressed very > formally in a little suit and bowtie every day while all the other boys wore > very casual clothes. The kids in the class all made fun of him, ostracized him > and teased him relentlessly. One day the teacher asked for a volunteer to run > an errand, and he picked the nerdy kid to go. > The teacher then told the class he had deliberately sent the nerdy kid away so > that he could address the rest of us. He lit into the class for being so mean, > told us how disappointed he was in us, and let us know he expected us to treat > everyone in the class with kindness and respect. We adored this teacher and I > know every last one of us felt really horrible for our bad behavior and for > disappointing this beloved teacher. > I still remember the entire incident to this day and bad as it made me feel, > I’m really glad this teacher cared enough to stand up for someone who couldn’t > stand up for himself. Wish there were more like him out there. > lite

Response:

In 6th grade there was a kid in my class who was a "nerd" – dressed very formally in a little suit and bowtie every day while all the other boys wore very casual clothes. The kids in the class all made fun of him, ostracized him and teased him relentlessly. One day the teacher asked for a volunteer to run an errand, and he picked the nerdy kid to go. The teacher then told the class he had deliberately sent the nerdy kid away so that he could address the rest of us. He lit into the class for being so mean, told us how disappointed he was in us, and let us know he expected us to treat everyone in the class with kindness and respect. We adored this teacher and I know every last one of us felt really horrible for our bad behavior and for disappointing this beloved teacher. I still remember the entire incident to this day and bad as it made me feel, I’m really glad this teacher cared enough to stand up for someone who couldn’t stand up for himself. Wish there were more like him out there. lite

Response:

Yes better teachers and small class sizes help things.In jr high a teacher would see someone being teased and just tell them to stop doing it and expect it to end there.It never does end there and so why dont teachers report those sorts of incidences to the school counsler??Isnt the counsler there to help kids who may have problems getting along with others and to talk to the kids so that maybe this sort of thing doesnt happen? I saw my jr high counsler 1 time in 3 years,high school counsler I never saw at all. But we also need more people like you and me to stand up for those who cant,isnt that what we are supposed to do? I have always tryed to stand up to people who did those sorts of things even if I took bull for it,who cares what they think.I know what they were doing was wrong,I was right to stand up for them when I could. So I didnt let their warped sense of morals get to me. One boy was very nice about it all and was very grateful,he would occasionally bring me flowers to say thanks for careing. If more kids stand up for whats right instead of whats cool or popular then maybe these sorts of things would stop. *babbles some more but spares you all* =) Tanya

Response:

Well, clearly we should pass a law against students being mean to other students. That would solve the problem for sure, wouldn’t it? All sarcasm aside, I agree with what you said here. But how can parents teach their children to be empathic when they speak with them only a few minutes a day? The whole Jock/Rich/Clique thing comes about because of distant parenting, being supplemented with monetary extravagance in an effort to assuage guilt. Spoiled brats are produced, who feel they are the center of the universe. I can see how some kids would just snap after years of torment at the hands of these people. Especially when their own parents don’t have time to recognize what’s going on either. All of these problems could be fixed by healthy families. The problems begin at home, and they could be fixed there as well, if people would only wake up. I saw an editorial cartoon today, where two parents were standing outside of Columbine High just behind the police tape. One said, "How could God have let this happen?" The other said, "It’s not his fault. He hasn’t been allowed in school for years." I do believe eventually things will get better. But I also believe things will get worse first. Our society is sick, and only when we gain the collective courage to admit that fact will we ever have any hope of becoming well again. — Amused "Mmmmmmm! That’s good bass!" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chris McCullough wrote in message … >I know this is off topic but after yet another high school shooting I have >really gotten myself worked up and would like to express an opinion =) >Id want to say first that I in no way agree with what these kids are >doing,it is never ok to just start shooting people because your angry. >BUT >I really do feel a bit of sympathy for them.How horribly these kids must >have been treated at school by classmates to have done this.Now I am not >very old but when I was in school I saw many kids teased everyday,I being a >far less cruel person always took to becomeing friends with these kids.I saw >what they went through,I was teased from time to time as well having been on >the poor side of the tracks but never as bad as these other kids were.People >would hit them,spit on them,kick them,push them,call them every hurtful >cruel thing they could think of and even beat them up from time to >time.People who didnt really feel it was right would let it happen because >they were afraid of loseing popularity with their classmates and being >treated in the same way.They were all to afraid of standing up for what they >believed in that they let these most popular kids do anything they want. >Im sure we’ve all seen a talk show at least once where the topic was "My kid >is being harrassed at school" and the parents of the bully walk on stage >and start babbaling about how it is only constructive critisism or that what >their child is doing will benefit his vicitim by making him change the way >he is or making him stronger.It disgusts me that a parent would stand up for >their kid on such horrible behavior.What are they thinking??Are they simply >to proud to admit that they messed up with raiseing their child so far?? Or >do these people really honestly believe that what their child is doing is >ok? My violent side steps out and makes me wanna slap them all silly until >they start teaching their children the basic things that are needed to be a >productive member of society. *sigh* I can see why these shooters turned >and finally stood up for themselves,I dont agree with it in anyway but after >seeing alot of this myself I can see why they did. >Today for example the boy had intended to shoot 1 person in general they >say,then they say that the star high school football player had been shot >twice in the thigh he other 5 people had only been shot once and all below >the knee. My take on what might have happened is that the big football start >was teasing the boy and the boy went in there not to kill him really but to >injure him,to take away his popularity maybe by taking away his ability to >play football?? Just an idea But most times it seems to be the jocks or the >rich kids who think they are better then the fat funny looking smart kid,and >they seem to think that their status gives them the right to torture other >people for no reason and on a very daily basis for years. >To many parents out there who need to seek out a good parents training >support group or something.Its ok to admit that what you are doing or have >done with your child is wrong,if you can admit it then you can stop and try >something else.If you go around trying not to think about it or pretending >your doing it right then you end up with these problems. Getting parents >involved more in school will do nothing….. Only changeing the way they >deal with their children in private will give us hope. Also way to many >parents just seem to pay absolutely no attention to what is going on in >their kids lives,they naturally assume their child couldnt possibly be doing >anything wrong and so they let their kids raise themselves(high school kids) >They are PARENTS!!!! Their job is to guide their kids until their kids are >adults and on their own,by then they should know whats right and wrong and >be strong and confident enough to be good people and do fine on their own.At >16,17,18 they simply arent raised yet. IMO >Ok Im gonna stop now hehe >Thanks for letting me rant >Tanya

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Arnie, yes it did work. The class didn’t bother the kid again for the rest of the year. I can’t tell you how mortified we were that we had made this teacher so angry and upset. I think it had such an impact because we really liked this teacher and cared what he thought. lite – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Arnie wrote: >Did it work? For how long?

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I agree. As important as parents are in forming their children’s character, they aren’t with them in school all day and don’t necessarily know what’s going on there. How many kids do you think go home and tell their parents about how they tortured another kid at school that day? Some people insist that our society’s problems stem from women going into the work force instead of staying home with their kids. I used to scoff at that but I’ve thought about it in a new light. I don’t think the problem is that mom isn’t home with the kids, but that with both adults or the only adult in the family working, there’s no one with the time and opportunity to build and nurture a strong social network with the other families in their neighborhood. Not only that, but they don’t have the need either(at least the need isn’t obvious), since we also have enough technology to allow us to live in the illusion of total self-sufficiency. We only "have" to be nice to people who have something we want, and people’s behavior gets worse and worse. Until things get so bad that we realize we refrain from flipping the bird at someone on the expressway not because we actually care about how we treat strangers, but because we’re afraid. Who knows if that guy is going to be the psycho with the gun? Common courtesy has become a survival tactic – people who avoid enraging, offending and frightening others have a better chance of staying alive. We’re 21st century cavemen. lite (hey, how did I get on this soapbox?) lyric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Oceanmomma wrote: >How about if teachers are re-trained and include this in their teaching >plans…as simple as it may sound.

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I was the person who always got teased in high school. I was tall and very thin. I Didn’t follow trends and was an artist without any sports related talent. Every day was hell. They called me string been, freckle ce…the usual mocking the odd one out receives. I made my own clothing because my parents were (and are) poor. even my close freinds didn’t understand why I was so full of anger and would lash out at people. I started drinking when iI was 12..the support just isn’t there at school. The teacher was one of the people who got me to stand up in front of the class and made fun of what I was wearing, the guidance councilor told the entire staff my problems I had shared with her in confidence. I in NO WAY condone shooting your classmates. But I wish there were classes for compassion, to teach kids and adults that different doesn’t mean wrong. anyway……. Sandra– "Prayer, the last refuge of a scoundrel", Lisa Simpson. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chris McCullough wrote in message … >Yes better teachers and small class sizes help things.In jr high a teacher >would see someone being teased and just tell them to stop doing it and >expect it to end there.It never does end there and so why dont teachers >report those sorts of incidences to the school counsler??Isnt the counsler >there to help kids who may have problems getting along with others and to >talk to the kids so that maybe this sort of thing doesnt happen? I saw my jr >high counsler 1 time in 3 years,high school counsler I never saw at all.

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>From: "Amused" >Well, clearly we should pass a law against students being mean to other >students. That would solve the problem for sure, wouldn’t it?

How about if teachers are re-trained and include this in their teaching plans…as simple as it may sound. >But how can parents >teach their children to be empathic when they speak with them only a few >minutes a day?

I will be the first to agree with you (personally) that many parents don’t spend an abundance of time with their kids. However it is impossible to blame just one factor. It is not only parenting. Just as it is not only schools. Or only friends. Or only personality types. I can assure you that the jock/rich/clique thing is perpetuated by what our society tells us. Look at what athletes are paid? Look at what actors are paid. I don’t have a written profile of all of the boys (and yes, it is just boys so far) who have committed these crimes at the schools…however, I am not sure that "spoiled brats" is the main theme. Being the center of the universe is a task of adolescence…as is toddlerhood. Stages that most pass through uneventfully. >I can see how some kids would just snap after years of torment at the hands >of these people. Especially when their own parents don’t have time to >recognize what’s going on either.

My son who is 21 has recently shared things with me about his adolscence. He is a good kid and I thought that I was a fairly good parent. There were things that I did not see…and I was a stay at home mom most of his life. I didn’t know much of what he was angry about. Yet he did not go off the deep end (and hopefully never will). I had the time, but as most teenagers, he did not want to talk to me. Fortunately he does now. >All of these problems could be fixed by healthy families. The problems >begin at home, and they could be fixed there as well, if people would only >wake up.

If only it were that easy Amused. It would certainly be a good start however it will not solve the problems. There are parents that are incapable of healthy parenting. There is mental illness. There is lack of money for some families to get help. Many families perpetuate their family stuff. Some kids are good kids and get in with the wrong crowd. There is a long list of why and what causes kids to do crazy things. It does not boil down to only one factor. > Our society is sick, and only when we gain the >collective courage to admit that fact will we ever have any hope of becoming >well again.

Yes, our society is very sick. Admitting it is a start. Getting everyone to do something about it is a dream. The cycle begins long before one is in the womb. ~~~~Don’t spit into the well–you might drink from it later.~~~

Response:

Oceanmomma wrote in message <19990521123317.23508.00002…@ng62.aol.com>… >How about if teachers are re-trained and include this in their teaching >plans…as simple as it may sound.

I think that would be a good step. Also, school uniforms would be a good step. Somehow, we need to foster a sense of belonging in all the students, and junk the fashion show. > I will be the first to agree with you (personally) that many parents don’t >spend an abundance of time with their kids. However it is impossible to blame >just one factor. It is not only parenting. Just as it is not only schools. >Or only friends. Or only personality types.

Yes, there are plenty of other contributing factors. But I still believe that everything children become begins at home. >I can assure you that the jock/rich/clique thing is perpetuated by what our >society tells us. Look at what athletes are paid? Look at what actors are >paid.

Yes, it is perpetuated by society. But again, society can be overcome if parents are willing to make the investment of time, love and attention in their children. >I don’t have a written profile of all of the boys (and yes, it is just boys so >far) who have committed these crimes at the schools…however, I am not sure >that "spoiled brats" is the main theme.

I wasn’t referring to the shooters as spoiled brats. I was referring to the cliques who tormented the shooters before they became violent. I do think ’spoiled brats’ is appropo in these cases. When I was in High School, certain groups assumed they were simply better, more entitled than others. This perception only comes from the granting of rewards without responsibilities, and that comes from home more than anywhere else. >Being the center of the universe is a task of adolescence…as is toddlerhood. >Stages that most pass through uneventfully.

While most kids do see their own needs as paramount, as do most people, that perception can be tempered by a realization of the needs of others. Empathy, graciousness, sensitivity are things that can be fostered and learned. But if it isn’t present at home, I doubt the lesson will be learned from anywhere else. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I can see how some kids would just snap after years of torment at the hands >>of these people. Especially when their own parents don’t have time to >>recognize what’s going on either. >My son who is 21 has recently shared things with me about his adolscence. He >is a good kid and I thought that I was a fairly good parent. There were things >that I did not see…and I was a stay at home mom most of his life. I didn’t >know much of what he was angry about. Yet he did not go off the deep end (and >hopefully never will). I had the time, but as most teenagers, he did not want >to talk to me. Fortunately he does now.

Children will not always talk with their parents, as you pointed out above. I can only speak from my own experiences, as my boys are still small. When I was the ‘rebellious’ teen, although I wanted to deny what my parents had taught me, inside I couldn’t. Parents are the first and best teachers. My parents gave me a moral compass to live by, and though I didn’t always take the time to look at that compass, eventually it became part of me. Parenting will not eliminate the problems kids face. But they key isn’t always avoiding a problem, the key is being given the right tools to deal with the problems they face. >If only it were that easy Amused. It would certainly be a good start however >it will not solve the problems. There are parents that are incapable of >healthy parenting. There is mental illness. There is lack of money for some >families to get help. Many families perpetuate their family stuff. Some kids >are good kids and get in with the wrong crowd. There is a long list of why and >what causes kids to do crazy things. It does not boil down to only one

factor. I believe it would solve the great majority of problems before they get out of control. Yes, there are parents incapable of good parenting. This does not change the fact that if they were capable of it, their childrens lives would be better, and society would be better as well. There are also those who ARE capable of good parenting, but for reasons of their own, they put their time and effort into other pursuits. The most fundamental unit in society is the family. Within it, the seeds are sown for greatness, or despotism. I do not excuse the shooters, nor do I consider them helpless victims. We are all responsible for our own actions. But I do think the situations which cause these students to crack, as well as the students inabilities to handle their own problems without violence, stems from the home. The factors that affect the home come from society, but it’s there they can be dealt with, or not dealt with. What we are seeing today is the result of that. >> Our society is sick, and only when we gain the >>collective courage to admit that fact will we ever have any hope of becoming >>well again. >Yes, our society is very sick. Admitting it is a start. Getting everyone to >do something about it is a dream. The cycle begins long before one is in the >womb.

I may not be able to change society, and I may not be able to get others to wake up. But, society isn’t going to change me, and hopefully my boys will take a lesson from this. I still believe that things will get better, if I just do my part. A dream? Maybe. But a dream worth having. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->~~~~Don’t spit into the well–you might drink >from it later.~~~

Response:

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In: Foster Parents

Permanent foster care

Question:

Hi Ollie We have fostered 7- 14 year old’s for the last 5 years, and we have a permeant foster son, treat them as your own child show them love. I still have some boys come stay with me for weekends and holidays. You seem to never forget any of them and they you. You my get some problems from other family members. But we always remember the great times and the not so good somehow get forgotten. All the best ( and stick with it remember every time a child is moved that is a new scar) Ray Johnson ( Australia) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Redneck wrote in message … >My wife and I have recently been certified for permanent foster care. My >question(s) to the group: >1- Are there any others out there who have done the permanent foster care. >2- If so, what were your experiences, trials, tribulations, and what should >we be on the lookout for? >We will be caring for 1 or 2 13-14 y.o. >Any input would be much appreciated…… >Thanks >Ollie

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You are 100% right I have never had any problems with the boys we have had (7) in all. Ray Johnson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob wrote in message <3729087E.C6E5E…@yahoo.com>… >> They’re teenagers. That should be warning enough. >Not all teens are bad… as a mater of fact most of the ones I’ve come across >are good. Let’s face it, they are in care not because they are bad… they >are in care because of shortcomings of their parents. >> They’re teenagers who can say "You’re not really my mother!" >So can 6 year olds. They probably said that because they were fighting with >you. They knew how to hurt you. They knew it would hurt. It shouldn’t >hurt… they just state the obvious… you are not their mother… you are >their foster mother… you can’t replace the real mother… only suppliment >their care. >> Fostering ends when they turn 18. There will be times when you will >> want to start counting the days. >Not with the right kid. Sometimes you never want to see them go. >> Having raised two girls of our own through teenhood I can tell you >> I am really appreciative of the fact that we foster infants. >Having raised two of our own girls I know that it takes a different set of >skills to raise teens as opposed to toddlers. Done correctly it can be just >as rewarding. >Bob

Response:

Sorry Rev Not all you have said has been proved as fact. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Rev. Mark Citro wrote in message <372F4165.9B58E…@online1.magnus1.com>… >Mike & Peg wrote: >> Rev. Mark, >> Why do you keep criticizing everything we foster parents do & say? What’s >> the big deal about calling a child a "kid", and why get after us when we use >> a label that was already given to a child? >> As a representative of the church, one would think you would be grateful >> that we are caring for "God’s" children instead of criticizing everything we >> do and say. >> Most of us subscribe to this ng for support, not to be criticized about >> everything we say. >So ignore the most important part of the post because you cannot handle >a little constructive criticism. Ok, that’s your perogative. As a >repersentative of The Body Of Christ, I find it important to address >anything that could be insulting to anyone, mainly children. We are >dealing with issues about children aren’t we, not goats? >So anyway if you would read the complete message about what I said you >would see that it says to think about it. >But either way, I am not going to argue with someone who just wants to >argue everything that isn’t to their liking. You can either accept what >I give as advice, since I have been doing this for almost 20 years, or >you can dismiss it. But remember that everything that I give to you as >advice had been already verified to be true. >Like it or not, it is the truth, so that ends the argument on my side >anyway, I will not address this topic again, for the benefit of those >who have to pay for how much they want to read. >GOD Bless >revmark

Response:

Hi David You must have to have the worst bad luck. I have never had a problem with any child in our care. We have left money and valuables laying around and never lost any. But I suppose you must get some children that have problems in that area. Ray Johnson (Australia) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David Hatunen wrote in message <7gpq0s$t2…@ultra.sonic.net>… >In article <sfZX2.3144$p17.9457…@firenze.visi.net>, >Redneck <od…@hroads.net> wrote: >>I really appreciate all the constructive, non-venomous replies >>that I received. To the news group, I apologize for the cutting >>remarks that Rev Mark has contributed. I feel that I must >>apologize because I am also an ordained minister (>20 years now), >>and I have raised 2 bio children, and 1 homeless youth. I have >>ministered to kids in the barrios and ghettos from Mexico to the >>Arctic Circle in the course of my life. And the one thing that I >>have found that they need is love and understanding, and being >>told the honest truth with compassion. I was asking advice from >>you all because in this area you have that most precious of all >>that we need…EXPERIENCE. >I suppose my post was considered ‘venomous’, but I do feel I should >relate some of our experiences. >We once fostered a 16-year old boy named James. His 12-year old >brother was also in the system and James wanted to be with his >borther who was going to a special group home. To this end, the >16yo called the police and told them we had marijauna. Fortunately, >this was a small city in Kansas and the police knew James. We >searched our house and found a marijuana cigarette in one of the >knick-knacks on a shelf. We wonder if James wasn’t going to lead >the police straight to it. James hoped, apparently, that if he were >removed from our home he would be sent to wherever his brother was. >he got half of his wish: we asked that he be moved, but he didn’t >go wioth his brother. >Another time we fostered a teenaged girl. We had our own teenage >daughter at the time, and she began to find things missing. >One problem can be that YOU may want to think of the placement as >long-term and act accordingly, the teenager may not. I realize that >there are happy stories out there, and we have friends here that do >teenage fostering quite successfully, but this is partly because >they are willing to notify DSS when they have a child that seems to >be defying fitting in and having the child removed. It’s a >precarious judgemental line, but they fall on the side of >maintaining a good environment for the kids that do fit into their >home, or are willing to try. >Also, having raised two girls through teenhood to adulthood we >simply don’t want to go through that teen stuff again. No thank >you. >But to each his/her own. >– > ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatu…@sonic.net) *********** > * Daly City California * > ******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******

Response:

I wish you luck!!!! I had 3 teens for five years in permanent foster care. All went good, untill two of them ran, five years later. seeking there birth mother…….. there life’s have been ruined ever since. Be prepared for lot’s of tears. From my experience……..they almost ALWAY go back to the birth parent .

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NO i believe that permanent foster care is the same as a goal of independent living.. .the child is not adoptable or has no parent/family resource… they therefore stay in care until they age out…. I guess some states name it something else….. we call it independent living in NY… permanent foster care must be a name in your state! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -CJ Washler wrote in message … >I have never heard of PERMANENT FOSTER CARE programs. I am in >Indiana and we just keep the children for as long as needed. The >reunification is aimed at less than one year, but if parents do >not get with the program and get their lives in order within 1 >year, the state of Indiana revokes all parental rights and the >child(ren) stay with Fosters until adoption. There is no special >"Permanent Foster Care Program"…just Fostering until they don’t >need you anymore. >I think we should all look at each child as if they were going to >be with us permanently… >– >Regards, >Cathy Washler, CPC >ContractCafe >ad…@contractcafe.com >==================================== >GET PAID TO SURF THE WEB >http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=aoc-071 >Bob <bobx2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:3729087E.C6E5E045@yahoo.com… >: > They’re teenagers. That should be warning enough. >: >: Not all teens are bad… as a mater of fact most of the ones >I’ve come across >: are good. Let’s face it, they are in care not because they are >bad… they >: are in care because of shortcomings of their parents. >: >: > They’re teenagers who can say "You’re not really my mother!" >: >: So can 6 year olds. They probably said that because they were >fighting with >: you. They knew how to hurt you. They knew it would hurt. It >shouldn’t >: hurt… they just state the obvious… you are not their >mother… you are >: their foster mother… you can’t replace the real mother… >only suppliment >: their care. >: >: > Fostering ends when they turn 18. There will be times when >you will >: > want to start counting the days. >: >: Not with the right kid. Sometimes you never want to see them >go. >: >: >: > Having raised two girls of our own through teenhood I can >tell you >: > I am really appreciative of the fact that we foster infants. >: >: Having raised two of our own girls I know that it takes a >different set of >: skills to raise teens as opposed to toddlers. Done correctly >it can be just >: as rewarding. >: >: Bob >:

Response:

In article <372F2305.C561A…@online1.magnus1.com>, Rev. Mark Citro <revm…@online1.magnus1.com> wrote: >Listen folks, one thing has been bothering me and I would like you >to be open minded about it. I notice that alot of people (who used >to include myself, which I still slip from time to time) have been >referring to the children as kids. It bothers me because a kid is >a billy goat, and we are not raising billy goats. So see if you >could maybe stop with calling them kids, which would actually show >them that you care, in the long run.

Don’t you have anything serious to worry about? "Kids" is entrenched in the language, and you must be one of the only person I know of who thinks I’m a goatherder if I call the kids to supper. Sheesh. — ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatu…@sonic.net) *********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * ******* and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea *******

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -David Hatunen wrote: > In article <372F2305.C561A…@online1.magnus1.com>, > Rev. Mark Citro <revm…@online1.magnus1.com> wrote: > >Listen folks, one thing has been bothering me and I would like you > >to be open minded about it. I notice that alot of people (who used > >to include myself, which I still slip from time to time) have been > >referring to the children as kids. It bothers me because a kid is > >a billy goat, and we are not raising billy goats. So see if you > >could maybe stop with calling them kids, which would actually show > >them that you care, in the long run. > Don’t you have anything serious to worry about? "Kids" is > entrenched in the language, and you must be one of the only person > I know of who thinks I’m a goatherder if I call the kids to supper. > Sheesh. > — > ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatu…@sonic.net) *********** > * Daly City California: * > * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * > ******* and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea *******

<putting on goat costume> Naaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh. (8^P) <removing goat costume>

Response:

I was wondering what that smell was. (8^P)

Response:

Rev. Mark, Why do you keep criticizing everything we foster parents do & say? What’s the big deal about calling a child a "kid", and why get after us when we use a label that was already given to a child? As a representative of the church, one would think you would be grateful that we are caring for "God’s" children instead of criticizing everything we do and say. Most of us subscribe to this ng for support, not to be criticized about everything we say.

Response:

Mike & Peg wrote: > Rev. Mark, > Why do you keep criticizing everything we foster parents do & say? What’s > the big deal about calling a child a "kid", and why get after us when we use > a label that was already given to a child? > As a representative of the church, one would think you would be grateful > that we are caring for "God’s" children instead of criticizing everything we > do and say. > Most of us subscribe to this ng for support, not to be criticized about > everything we say.

So ignore the most important part of the post because you cannot handle a little constructive criticism. Ok, that’s your perogative. As a repersentative of The Body Of Christ, I find it important to address anything that could be insulting to anyone, mainly children. We are dealing with issues about children aren’t we, not goats? So anyway if you would read the complete message about what I said you would see that it says to think about it. But either way, I am not going to argue with someone who just wants to argue everything that isn’t to their liking. You can either accept what I give as advice, since I have been doing this for almost 20 years, or you can dismiss it. But remember that everything that I give to you as advice had been already verified to be true. Like it or not, it is the truth, so that ends the argument on my side anyway, I will not address this topic again, for the benefit of those who have to pay for how much they want to read. GOD Bless revmark

Response:

> Rev. Mark Citro <revm…@online1.magnus1.com> wrote: > >Listen folks, one thing has been bothering me and I would like you > >to be open minded about it. I notice that alot of people (who used > >to include myself, which I still slip from time to time) have been > >referring to the children as kids. It bothers me because a kid is > >a billy goat, and we are not raising billy goats. So see if you > >could maybe stop with calling them kids, which would actually show > >them that you care, in the long run.

My kids are children, kids, and every other silly name I can think to call them in a day….as long as it isn’t a negative or belittling name. And, they know I love them all. Until it becomes an issue here in our home, where I feel it is not a "good" name for them to have, then I’m not inclined to change that aspect of my parenting. Theresa – mom to 7 kiddos

Response:

I have never heard of PERMANENT FOSTER CARE programs. I am in Indiana and we just keep the children for as long as needed. The reunification is aimed at less than one year, but if parents do not get with the program and get their lives in order within 1 year, the state of Indiana revokes all parental rights and the child(ren) stay with Fosters until adoption. There is no special "Permanent Foster Care Program"…just Fostering until they don’t need you anymore. I think we should all look at each child as if they were going to be with us permanently… — Regards, Cathy Washler, CPC ContractCafe ad…@contractcafe.com ==================================== GET PAID TO SURF THE WEB http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=aoc-071 Bob <bobx2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3729087E.C6E5E045@yahoo.com… : > They’re teenagers. That should be warning enough. : : Not all teens are bad… as a mater of fact most of the ones I’ve come across : are good. Let’s face it, they are in care not because they are bad… they : are in care because of shortcomings of their parents. : : > They’re teenagers who can say "You’re not really my mother!" : : So can 6 year olds. They probably said that because they were fighting with : you. They knew how to hurt you. They knew it would hurt. It shouldn’t : hurt… they just state the obvious… you are not their mother… you are : their foster mother… you can’t replace the real mother… only suppliment : their care. : : > Fostering ends when they turn 18. There will be times when you will : > want to start counting the days. : : Not with the right kid. Sometimes you never want to see them go. : : : > Having raised two girls of our own through teenhood I can tell you : > I am really appreciative of the fact that we foster infants. : : Having raised two of our own girls I know that it takes a different set of : skills to raise teens as opposed to toddlers. Done correctly it can be just : as rewarding. : : Bob :

Response:

Redneck wrote: > My wife and I have recently been certified for permanent foster care. My > question(s) to the group: > 1- Are there any others out there who have done the permanent foster care. > 2- If so, what were your experiences, trials, tribulations, and what should > we be on the lookout for? > We will be caring for 1 or 2 13-14 y.o. > Any input would be much appreciated…… > Thanks > Ollie

Look forward to broken furniture, smashed doors, nasty looks, bad attitudes, lots of ARD meetings in school, and therapist meetings. Those are some of the things to look forward to, oh yeah, poor support from DSS, and DSS workers that will not always back you on your decisions(except for a select few) that are well trained. I know this because of being an advocate for children who are in permanent foster care. I work very close with the foster parents. And also get used to long drawn out training sessions that teach you alot less than you already know, if you are able to use common sense. Sorry if I sound negative, but these are the things that they never prepare you for, that you kind of find out after the children are placed in your home. If you can get through the first couple of years, you will do good, but don’t give up on the children, because it isn’t their fault that they have been misdirected, but you aren’t allowed to tell them that. I hope my honesty doesn’t scare you away, but these are things that they rarely prepare you for, before the children are placed with you. If you genuinely love children though, and really care about them, all of what I just told you will make you want to make it work, instead of scare you away. GOD Bless revmark

Response:

In article <sfZX2.3144$p17.9457…@firenze.visi.net>, Redneck <od…@hroads.net> wrote: >I really appreciate all the constructive, non-venomous replies >that I received. To the news group, I apologize for the cutting >remarks that Rev Mark has contributed. I feel that I must >apologize because I am also an ordained minister (>20 years now), >and I have raised 2 bio children, and 1 homeless youth. I have >ministered to kids in the barrios and ghettos from Mexico to the >Arctic Circle in the course of my life. And the one thing that I >have found that they need is love and understanding, and being >told the honest truth with compassion. I was asking advice from >you all because in this area you have that most precious of all >that we need…EXPERIENCE.

I suppose my post was considered ‘venomous’, but I do feel I should relate some of our experiences. We once fostered a 16-year old boy named James. His 12-year old brother was also in the system and James wanted to be with his borther who was going to a special group home. To this end, the 16yo called the police and told them we had marijauna. Fortunately, this was a small city in Kansas and the police knew James. We searched our house and found a marijuana cigarette in one of the knick-knacks on a shelf. We wonder if James wasn’t going to lead the police straight to it. James hoped, apparently, that if he were removed from our home he would be sent to wherever his brother was. he got half of his wish: we asked that he be moved, but he didn’t go wioth his brother. Another time we fostered a teenaged girl. We had our own teenage daughter at the time, and she began to find things missing. One problem can be that YOU may want to think of the placement as long-term and act accordingly, the teenager may not. I realize that there are happy stories out there, and we have friends here that do teenage fostering quite successfully, but this is partly because they are willing to notify DSS when they have a child that seems to be defying fitting in and having the child removed. It’s a precarious judgemental line, but they fall on the side of maintaining a good environment for the kids that do fit into their home, or are willing to try. Also, having raised two girls through teenhood to adulthood we simply don’t want to go through that teen stuff again. No thank you. But to each his/her own. — ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatu…@sonic.net) *********** * Daly City California * ******* My typos are intentional copyright traps ******

Response:

Redneck <od…@hroads.net> wrote in message

news:WnZV2.2182$p17.5733981@firenze.visi.net… > My wife and I have recently been certified for permanent foster care. My > question(s) to the group: > 1- Are there any others out there who have done the permanent foster care. > 2- If so, what were your experiences, trials, tribulations, and what should > we be on the lookout for? > We will be caring for 1 or 2 13-14 y.o. > Any input would be much appreciated…… > Thanks > Ollie

I really appreciate all the constructive, non-venomous replies that I received. To the news group, I apologize for the cutting remarks that Rev Mark has contributed. I feel that I must apologize because I am also an ordained minister (>20 years now), and I have raised 2 bio children, and 1 homeless youth. I have ministered to kids in the barrios and ghettos from Mexico to the Arctic Circle in the course of my life. And the one thing that I have found that they need is love and understanding, and being told the honest truth with compassion. I was asking advice from you all because in this area you have that most precious of all that we need…EXPERIENCE. I am not an expert, but I’m smart enough to ask for help when I need it. Again, this may be a very muddled post, but I wanted to thank you all for your input..I’ll keep you posted on the progress if I may… Ollie

Response:

I agree wholeheartedly. If the Foster Parents treat the child(ren) as short term, the child(ren) will respond in kind. My foster son (soon to be adopted), was placed with us for 30 days (until a bed opened at a treatment center). That was over 2 years ago. He was labeled ‘non-placeable’ by our DHS. 12yo, doing badly in school, a horrible background, who would want him him. Now he is an honor roll student, an active member of a YMCA teen leadership program, a swim team member, a baseball team member, looking forward to the 8th grade prom. From the moment he entered our home, he was permanent. He is by the way, the bravest person I have ever met. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -CJ Washler wrote: > I have never heard of PERMANENT FOSTER CARE programs. I am in > Indiana and we just keep the children for as long as needed. The > reunification is aimed at less than one year, but if parents do > not get with the program and get their lives in order within 1 > year, the state of Indiana revokes all parental rights and the > child(ren) stay with Fosters until adoption. There is no special > "Permanent Foster Care Program"…just Fostering until they don’t > need you anymore. > I think we should all look at each child as if they were going to > be with us permanently… > — > Regards, > Cathy Washler, CPC > ContractCafe > ad…@contractcafe.com > ==================================== > GET PAID TO SURF THE WEB > http://alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=aoc-071 > Bob <bobx2…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:3729087E.C6E5E045@yahoo.com… > : > They’re teenagers. That should be warning enough. > : > : Not all teens are bad… as a mater of fact most of the ones > I’ve come across > : are good. Let’s face it, they are in care not because they are > bad… they > : are in care because of shortcomings of their parents. > : > : > They’re teenagers who can say "You’re not really my mother!" > : > : So can 6 year olds. They probably said that because they were > fighting with > : you. They knew how to hurt you. They knew it would hurt. It > shouldn’t > : hurt… they just state the obvious… you are not their > mother… you are > : their foster mother… you can’t replace the real mother… > only suppliment > : their care. > : > : > Fostering ends when they turn 18. There will be times when > you will > : > want to start counting the days. > : > : Not with the right kid. Sometimes you never want to see them > go. > : > : > : > Having raised two girls of our own through teenhood I can > tell you > : > I am really appreciative of the fact that we foster infants. > : > : Having raised two of our own girls I know that it takes a > different set of > : skills to raise teens as opposed to toddlers. Done correctly > it can be just > : as rewarding. > : > : Bob > :

Response:

> They’re teenagers. That should be warning enough.

Not all teens are bad… as a mater of fact most of the ones I’ve come across are good. Let’s face it, they are in care not because they are bad… they are in care because of shortcomings of their parents. > They’re teenagers who can say "You’re not really my mother!"

So can 6 year olds. They probably said that because they were fighting with you. They knew how to hurt you. They knew it would hurt. It shouldn’t hurt… they just state the obvious… you are not their mother… you are their foster mother… you can’t replace the real mother… only suppliment their care. > Fostering ends when they turn 18. There will be times when you will > want to start counting the days.

Not with the right kid. Sometimes you never want to see them go. > Having raised two girls of our own through teenhood I can tell you > I am really appreciative of the fact that we foster infants.

Having raised two of our own girls I know that it takes a different set of skills to raise teens as opposed to toddlers. Done correctly it can be just as rewarding. Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> hi- > excuse my poor english grammar, but "it ain’t the kids fault"! I really > think that the bad times with fostering (and their ain’t many) are when > the biological parents act up. My foster daughter is well adjusted and > is a really good girl. We were suppose to take ages 9 and under when > we first started, but she needed a place and she was 10 at that time > and we said yes! all ages have different issue. I think the younger > children take more physical work, and the older ones take more mental. > Of course the older ones have more functions to go to but that is how > your biological children would be anyway. Fostering has been one of > the greatest rewards in my life so far!! Parenting your biological > children is a great experience but fostering a child is beyond that > and can be very enriching. You have to take one day at a time! Count > your blessing! Remember to be thankful for directions from God. These > children need us. > thanks- > Darlene > ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

I didn’t say that it was the children’s fault, which it isn’t, but what I put before you are things that DSS never tells you about, that you kind of learn the hard way, after the children are placed with you. And by all means, it will not happen with all of the children in foster care, but could happen with most of them. Just remember, I am giving you a generalization for foster care in general, not for every foster child. Listen folks, one thing has been bothering me and I would like you to be open minded about it. I notice that alot of people (who used to include myself, which I still slip from time to time) have been referring to the children as kids. It bothers me because a kid is a billy goat, and we are not raising billy goats. So see if you could maybe stop with calling them kids, which would actually show them that you care, in the long run. Anyway, when I give such a post as up top there, it is a generalization, and not pertaining to all. Some of these children are the most adoreable and loveable children you would ever meet. While some (in the case of a little girl placed with one of my friends) are the cutest people, but are your worst nightmare. This little girl was so tiny, and so dainty, and so nasty, she would push the screens out in her windows, she would scream if you tried to discipline her, and she would antagonize the other children in the house. She broke just about every piece of furniture in her room, and was working on the furniture in the rest of the house when finally she had to be removed, because she was saying that the foster father was touching her inappropriately, when we could prove that he wasn’t. So there are exceptions on both sides. GOD Bless revmark

Response:

In article <372B8347.B642F…@online1.magnus1.com>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - revm…@online1.magnus1.com wrote: > Redneck wrote: > > My wife and I have recently been certified for permanent foster care. My > > question(s) to the group: > > 1- Are there any others out there who have done the permanent foster care. > > 2- If so, what were your experiences, trials, tribulations, and what should > > we be on the lookout for? > > We will be caring for 1 or 2 13-14 y.o. > > Any input would be much appreciated…… > > Thanks > > Ollie > Look forward to broken furniture, smashed doors, nasty looks, bad > attitudes, lots of ARD meetings in school, and therapist meetings. > Those are some of the things to look forward to, oh yeah, poor support > from DSS, and DSS workers that will not always back you on your > decisions(except for a select few) that are well trained. I know this > because of being an advocate for children who are in permanent foster > care. I work very close with the foster parents. And also get used to > long drawn out training sessions that teach you alot less than you > already know, if you are able to use common sense. > Sorry if I sound negative, but these are the things that they never > prepare you for, that you kind of find out after the children are placed > in your home. If you can get through the first couple of years, you will > do good, but don’t give up on the children, because it isn’t their fault > that they have been misdirected, but you aren’t allowed to tell them > that. I hope my honesty doesn’t scare you away, but these are things > that they rarely prepare you for, before the children are placed with > you. If you genuinely love children though, and really care about them, > all of what I just told you will make you want to make it work, instead > of scare you away. > GOD Bless > revmark

hi- excuse my poor english grammar, but "it ain’t the kids fault"! I really think that the bad times with fostering (and their ain’t many) are when the biological parents act up. My foster daughter is well adjusted and is a really good girl. We were suppose to take ages 9 and under when we first started, but she needed a place and she was 10 at that time and we said yes! all ages have different issue. I think the younger children take more physical work, and the older ones take more mental. Of course the older ones have more functions to go to but that is how your biological children would be anyway. Fostering has been one of the greatest rewards in my life so far!! Parenting your biological children is a great experience but fostering a child is beyond that and can be very enriching. You have to take one day at a time! Count your blessing! Remember to be thankful for directions from God. These children need us. thanks- Darlene ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Response:

My advice would be to have a greater age spread between the kids. It can lower the competition for your time. Having different school schedules and such can create a greater headache for scheduling but may also allow for more one-on-one time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Redneck wrote: > My wife and I have recently been certified for permanent foster care. My > question(s) to the group: > 1- Are there any others out there who have done the permanent foster care. > 2- If so, what were your experiences, trials, tribulations, and what should > we be on the lookout for? > We will be caring for 1 or 2 13-14 y.o. > Any input would be much appreciated…… > Thanks > Ollie

Response:

My wife and I have recently been certified for permanent foster care. My question(s) to the group: 1- Are there any others out there who have done the permanent foster care. 2- If so, what were your experiences, trials, tribulations, and what should we be on the lookout for? We will be caring for 1 or 2 13-14 y.o. Any input would be much appreciated…… Thanks Ollie

Response:

In article <WnZV2.2182$p17.5733…@firenze.visi.net>, Redneck <od…@hroads.net> wrote: >My wife and I have recently been certified for permanent foster care. My >question(s) to the group: >1- Are there any others out there who have done the permanent >foster care. >2- If so, what were your experiences, trials, tribulations, and >what should we be on the lookout for? >We will be caring for 1 or 2 13-14 y.o. >Any input would be much appreciated……

They’re teenagers. That should be warning enough. They’re teenagers who can say "You’re not really my mother!" Fostering ends when they turn 18. There will be times when you will want to start counting the days. Having raised two girls of our own through teenhood I can tell you I am really appreciative of the fact that we foster infants. — ********** DAVE HATUNEN (hatu…@sonic.net) *********** * Daly City California: * * where San Francisco meets The Peninsula * ******* and the San Andreas Fault meets the Sea *******

Response:

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In: Foster Parents Paid

I love this break!!

Question:

I think its great! I had my break of "2" days when we went to San Diego… we are also going to vegas on Dec 27th! May you win enough money to pay for all your IF treatments while in Vegas!!!! Debbie 5 Angels In Heaven ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ ^i^ Will Begin Fostering Drug Addicted Newborns In Early February 1999!

Response:

I am also on a month long break. We have just reached the point of IUI. DH has been diagnosed with low motility, so we decided to wait to do anything until he saw an urologist. Plus I decided I wanted to be human for Christmas *G*. It’s really liberating, being off the clomid. I don’t know if I’m unusual, but it exhausted me, made my brain foggy, I slept poorly, and was crabby. Of course it would have all been worth it if I’d gotten a big fat ++. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Just wanted to share what I am going through right now. DH and I are on a one-month break and I am so glad we decided to do it. Ask me what day of my cycle I’m on. Ask me what my temp. has been any day of this cycle. My answer to both questions is "I HAVE NO IDEA"!! It is so nice to not even be thinking about IF this month…with the holidays coming and a trip to Vegas with DH on 12/17. It’s weird…I am so glad for this month-long relief but at the same time am getting psyched to start injectibles next month. I realize that many of you have no interest in taking a break, but I thought I would just share how I feel about it. Happy Holidays to you all! Ellen 2.5 yrs. secondary IF 4 cycles clomid One cycle clomid/IUI Taking a break, start Follistim/IUI in Jan.

– replace nospam with cheri to reply via email http://www.geocities.com/wellesley/1784/

Response:

Hi Ellen, I’m so glad you’re enjoying your break (and what a great time to take one)!! I’ve enjoyed the couple of breaks dh and I have taken voluntarily, but don’t like it so much when the break is forced on us. It’s great that you chose to take a break and enjoy the holidays. Have a great trip! Paula – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Just wanted to share what I am going through right now. DH and I are on a one-month break and I am so glad we decided to do it.

Response:

NEVER-EVER thought I’d be saying this, but I’m so happy to be on a 6 month break!!!!! After almost 3 years of IF, countless IUIs (with & without meds), we made up our minds to take 6 mths off & decide whether we would do IVF or go for Adoption. It’s been almost 2 mths & I love not having to run to the RE for blood, u/s, etc……I’m FREE!!!!! Fertile thoughts to all! :-))

Response:

Hi, I feel the same way. I am takign a break and can’t wait to start my cycle in January. I am in the holiday spirit and everything. After a failed cycle in Llate Nov. I thought I would hate the holidays. Not this year. Good luck to al Tara

Response:

Hi Ellen, I too also took a break for a couple of months and let me tell you it did do wonders. I had been doing Clomid for about a while and had five IUI’s with no success. It was a major roller coaster ride for the last year or so, and taking a break from the whole thing did me wonders. I have a much more positive attitude and can I actually say look forward to starting my injectables next month. But on the other hand I really have been feeling lately that if I don’t have a child it is not the end of the world!!!!! I can move on from this. We are going to Las Vegas in February, we love it there. Go to the "Rio" for the buffet, it is to die for. E Mail me if you want…. Sandy

Response:

Hi everyone, Just wanted to share what I am going through right now. DH and I are on a one-month break and I am so glad we decided to do it. Ask me what day of my cycle I’m on. Ask me what my temp. has been any day of this cycle. My answer to both questions is "I HAVE NO IDEA"!! It is so nice to not even be thinking about IF this month…with the holidays coming and a trip to Vegas with DH on 12/17. It’s weird…I am so glad for this month-long relief but at the same time am getting psyched to start injectibles next month. I realize that many of you have no interest in taking a break, but I thought I would just share how I feel about it. Happy Holidays to you all! Ellen 2.5 yrs. secondary IF 4 cycles clomid One cycle clomid/IUI Taking a break, start Follistim/IUI in Jan.

Response:

I am so glad that u are enjoying your break. I take breaks often and it does me and DH a world of good !!! Best of luck in what u plan to do next. ~~* Best Wishes that all of your hopes and dreams will come true !! *~~ Cyndie 1 Ectopic 2 miscarriages 1 surgery 2nd cycle on clomid

Response:

Ellen, Enjoy your break. And have fun in Vagas. Win some for all of us here. Happy Holidays, Castle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Just wanted to share what I am going through right now. DH and I are on a one-month break and I am so glad we decided to do it. Ask me what day of my cycle I’m on. Ask me what my temp. has been any day of this cycle. My answer to both questions is "I HAVE NO IDEA"!! It is so nice to not even be thinking about IF this month…with the holidays coming and a trip to Vegas with DH on 12/17. It’s weird…I am so glad for this month-long relief but at the same time am getting psyched to start injectibles next month. I realize that many of you have no interest in taking a break, but I thought I would just share how I feel about it. Happy Holidays to you all! Ellen 2.5 yrs. secondary IF 4 cycles clomid One cycle clomid/IUI Taking a break, start Follistim/IUI in Jan.

Response:

Good for you. It really helps to have a break, it reminds you that their is more to life than a themometer. Merry Christmas. Sharon

Response:

You know everyone I know who was having a problem ,went on vacation and viloa they now have children. Good Luck Ena

Response:

I am having to take the month of December off due to cysts. I was upset at first but I think it was a blessing now. I haven’t felt this good in over a year. I am really enjoying this time off. I have alot more patience with my four foster children. I think I may start taking breaks every so often now. In January I will be ready to start round two of Gonal_F. Enjoy your vacation and your break. Best wishes, Nina

Response:

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In: Foster Children

PSYCHIATRISTS WHO ABUSED PATIENTS ARE EXPOSED

Question:

A 12 year-old boy told therapists he had been sexually abused by his grandfather- Louis Martin. The boy gave very graphic detail of every sex act committed upon his body. Police detectives and Tarrant County District attorneys listened to the boy tell of horrific sexual torture he was forced to endure repeatedly. There was no physical evidence of sexual-abuse. The grandfather, who had no past history of sex crimes and had passed a lie detector test, was arrested and jailed on three counts of aggravated sexual assault based only on the word of his 12 year-old grandson. The boy later told his foster family he had lied about being sexually-abused by his grandfather. After the DA’s office discovered the boy had recanted his stories of sexual-abuse Louis Martin was freed from jail.

Response:

10 psychiatrists are trying to keep 60 former patients from access to part of a 15 million+plus legal settlement on the grounds that they spoke publicly about abuse at Dallas’s Brookhaven Psychiatric Pavilion. John Deaton testified before a congressional subcommittee hearing on health-care fraud that he had been shackled to his bed for 11 months and abruptly discharged when his insurance ran out. Under terms of the agreement, patients had to refrain from making any negative comments in public about the hospital and its psychiatrists. Brookhaven’s parent company, National Medical Enterprises, which pleaded guilty to seven felony counts, paid a record 363 million fine for health-care fraud. Dr. Gary Lee Etter is one of the 10 psychiatrists seeking to keep the former patients from obtaining the settlement funds. The Medical Director, Dr. Hernan Burgos, was convicted on 14 felony counts November 7, 1996 in U.S. District Court.

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10 psychiatrists are trying to keep more than 60 former patients from access to part of a 15 million+plus legal settlement on the grounds they spoke publicly about abuse at Dallas’s Brookhaven Psychiatric Pavilion. John Deaton testified before a congressional subcommittee hearing on health-care fraud saying he had been shackled to his bed for 11 months and abruptly discharged when his insurance ran out. Under terms of the agreement, patients had to refrain from making any negative comments in public about the hospital and its psychiatrists. Brookhaven’s parent company, National Medical Enterprises, which pleaded guilty to seven felony counts, paid a record 363 million fine for health-care fraud. Dr. Gary Lee Etter is one of the 10 psychiatrists seeking to keep the former patients from obtaining the settlement funds. The medical director- Dr. Hernan Burgos was convicted on 14 felony counts November 7, 1996. Other psychiatrists are awaiting trial for health-care related fraud.

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