Foster Parents FAQ

OT: Question of the day…. 05/22/07

admin — Tue, 22 May 2007 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have 4 beautiful cats. My girls are seventeen and my boys, both of whom were rescue animals are, not sure how old. My Maine coone cat, Benson, who was a humane kitty takes a bath every day in the tub, loves water. I have to get a website and get pictures up, he’s a riot. They all think they’re human and I love them all unconditionally, maybe cause they can’t speak. Maria

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind? Jackie ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~ ~~ Maya Angelou quote — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

that’s so wonderful you volunteer. The animals appreciate it. It broke my heart to see them all, without a home. Maria

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind? I have a Catahoula mix (dog) and a Havana brown cat, both are rescues. Since I volunteer at the city animal shelter, I supposed I can count those to a certain extent! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind?

A beagle. She only barks at humans, or imagined humans. Never at animals, deer, rabbits, birds. She thinks she’s big stuff. I call her "The Queen" cause she reigns from an upholstered chair in the living room. But her eyes see *everything* Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I used to have tropical fish as a child, but I got bored with them.

My brother used to have a pirrhana (? spelling). He feed it hamburger. Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you have any pets? What kind?

We have two beautiful and loving West Highland White Terriers. Angus is 6 years old and his new "bud" Tavin is 6 months. They are the light of our lives in so many ways! Tom — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind? Jackie ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~ ~~ Maya Angelou quote —

2 dogs, one is a lab and the other is an American Eskimo, one cat, and two bunnies. All of them are very spoiled. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind? I have a Catahoula mix (dog) and a Havana brown cat, both are rescues. Since I volunteer at the city animal shelter, I supposed I can count those to a certain extent!

I recently started volunteering at the local shelter. I help socialize the dogs to make them more adoptable. I love the animals, they are so true. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind?

There are so many dogs and cats in the neighbourhood that I don’t need to have the responsibility and cost of ownership in order to enjoy them! — Ron P Member of the invisible generation — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

3 cats and a dog. Major animal lover here! Cougar " Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind?" — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

A dog. She’s a beagle and very timid. My son lives with us and he has a female terrier who is very entertaining. smiles, Elise

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind?

3 cats and two pet rats. I love my kitties even though they drive me crazy! LOL. kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

We have a black cat. :-) Di

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind? Jackie

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind?

No. I’m allergic to furry and feathery animals, but I’ll take an allergy pill if I know I’ll be around one. I used to have tropical fish as a child, but I got bored with them. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I have a 14 year old kitty and a 2 year old dog – Black Lab/Rotty mix. They are a source of happiness and comfort for me. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind?

I have a Catahoula mix (dog) and a Havana brown cat, both are rescues. Since I volunteer at the city animal shelter, I supposed I can count those to a certain extent! — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind? Jackie

I have 2 labs, one yellow and one black who someone dropped off for some reason. She is obviously spayed and was well taken care of. The yellow one I adopted from the SPCA. I also have a cat that is around 16 I adopted 7 years ago or so from the vet clinic where I worked. NOW we have my son’s girlfriend’s cat. A female who has just gone into her first heat! OMG She is indoors and we will get her spayed of course. His girlfriend’s mom cannot take the cat so we are foster parents, so to speak. I also have a beagle, about 6 years old where the yellow lab is 8 or 9. The beagle was a puppy when we adopted him. I know my husband was glad when I left the vet clinic!!! We love our animals, however. They are very loving. Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Do you have any pets? What kind?

A bulldog; my wife dotes on her. Her name is Spike (a girl but no wimpy names for a bulldog!) Dennis — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind? Jackie I have 2 labs, one yellow and one black who someone dropped off for some reason. She is obviously spayed and was well taken care of. The yellow one I adopted from the SPCA. I also have a cat that is around 16 I adopted 7 years ago or so from the vet clinic where I worked. NOW we have my son’s girlfriend’s cat. A female who has just gone into her first heat! OMG She is indoors and we will get her spayed of course. His girlfriend’s mom cannot take the cat so we are foster parents, so to speak. I also have a beagle, about 6 years old where the yellow lab is 8 or 9. The beagle was a puppy when we adopted him. I know my husband was glad when I left the vet clinic!!! We love our animals, however. They are very loving. Vicki

It sounds like you have a full house, Vicki! We love animals, too, though. It’s difficult not to take a stray in when they come to our door – and they always come to OUR door. :~) kili — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

A li’l ol kitty cat. Just watching her sleep relaxes me — _TJ_

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

05/22/07: Today’s question is being brought to you by our very own Marie Do you have any pets? What kind?

Our dog Billie. She’s about 7 or 8 years old, she’s a rescue so we don’t know for certain. She’s very friendly, very easily freaked: someone outside will made her bark and growl but the same person indoors will make her go all lovey and jumpy and hyperactively happy. One of a kind. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Do you have any pets? What kind? I have one yellow lab and too many cats We also have a disgusting snake, a fish tank with salt water fish and two bunnies. Jackie ~*~If you don’t like something, change it. If you can’t change it, change your attitude~*~ ~~ Maya Angelou quote — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

OT: my son got mugged at school today

admin — Wed, 05 Oct 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

He’s reluctant to cooperate with the investigation for fear of reprisal. A witness seems to have IDed the perp, according to the nurse… I got jumped and stabbed in the neck by some gang members when I was in school.

Must been some pretty punk gangstas since you’re here to write about it. I grew up on the South Side of Chicago (yes, I played a LOT of pool) and when someone got stabbed he *stayed* stabbed. So maybe all that is a little different than Tony’s story.

We shall see. I’m not entirely complacent. He might even become a (GASP!) coin dealer, some day!

Hmmm… I’ll suggest that sentence to the judge, if it comes to that.

Response:

muttered something like: Y’know, he got busted about the wallet chain in middle school. But this is HS, isn’t it?

Busted about the wallet chain? Why, what’s the deal with a wallet chain? -Bertha — Just my opinion. (But I’m right.)

Response:

I’m not concerned. Tony didn’t cut and run, indicating guilt. The other kids did. Hell, the stubborn little shit even passed up a free day off from school! And I just called his cell, but he doesn’t want me to pick him up. The possibility of getting jumped on the way home does concern me a bit.

Response:

A cross? Rita, you don’t know my son. This would be more to his liking: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8222850983 But, there’s no chain. The wallet with the cross would be perfect for him and hold the same status just as long as he remembers to always put it in his pocket upside-down.

Y’know, he got busted about the wallet chain in middle school. But this is HS, isn’t it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7551946490

Response:

He’s reluctant to cooperate with the investigation for fear of reprisal. A witness seems to have IDed the perp, according to the nurse…

I got jumped and stabbed in the neck by some gang members when I was in school. I had a hard time with the decision then about "should I tell on the guy and face reprisal or rollover and be vulnerable for the next guy". I figured out that, the guy was already willing to stab me, just for having blond hair (I had hair in those days). Not "telling on him" would certainly not make him any less willing to do it again. I ended up telling on the guy. We went to court, I pointed out the guy to the judge. The guy, then made his hand into the shape of a gun and pointed it at me, like he was going to shoot me. This was all in court. The judge took him into immediate custody and gave him 30 days hard time, just for the hand gesture. Said the guy was an "insult to the court and a threat to society". The guy was expelled from my school. A few years later, my mom, who worked for the PD, told me about his history. Turns out, the stabbing thing he did to me was just part of his lifestyle. He committed enough violent crimes that the CA Penal system became his permanant home. While serving time for murdering a little old lady and taking $75, he was killed by rival gang inmates. So maybe all that is a little different than Tony’s story. But I think it’s always the better idea to "tell on the guy". I think the juve justice system wants to be quick to quench violent crime wherever it can. If the guy thinks he can get away with stealing $20 and punching another kid (a felony) then he’s likely to go right up the ladder and commit even more serious crimes. He might even become a (GASP!) coin dealer, some day! Craig – Wanna see my scar?

Response:

I’ll have a talk with Tony when he gets home. It’s his call how to handle this. I just want to discuss our options and their potential consequences… like getting an extra hour’s sleep in the morning.

Good luck with this one. In a perfect world, the perp would give back the money and apologize….or is that one of those Jello Circuit films? Kris

Response:

I guess it depends on how school system handles it.

How come you aren’t so accepting of PayPal policy? Here they’d be expelled, and I’d be good with that.

"They" who? Only one kid assaulted Tony. But I’d also drag the cops in,

They drag themselves in to each Denver school every morning. "Resource Officers," they’re called. Resources for bullying students and parents, sometimes.

Response:

I guess it depends on how school system handles it. How come you aren’t so accepting of PayPal policy? Here they’d be expelled, and I’d be good with that. "They" who? Only one kid assaulted Tony.

You couldn’t figure out what I meant? But I’d also drag the cops in, They drag themselves in to each Denver school every morning. "Resource Officers," they’re called. Resources for bullying students and parents, sometimes.

Well, I wouldn’t be tempted to let it slide. The attacker would be arrested in short order if he mugged a stranger on the street. That other kid is apparently broken. The sooner his arrest record gets started the sooner he’ll be off the street. You’re in CO? Tell Tony to tell the cops that the other kid said he had a gun and see how fast he disappears into the system. *poof* I had a few go-rounds in high school too, but we never stole from people. A

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tony’s a freshman at a Denver public school. A $20 bill fell out of his pocket at school this morning – part of the week’s lunch money I gave him yesterday. Another kid grabbed it and socked Tony in the jaw, then split. Investigation in progress. School nurse says Tony’s jaw is swollen but no concussion yet. Tony says he wants to finish out the school day. I told him to call me if he changes his mind. He’s reluctant to cooperate with the investigation for fear of reprisal. A witness seems to have IDed the perp, according to the nurse. My instinct is to demand the perp’s head, of course. Probably won’t even learn if the perp is caught without a big fight, given school and juvie justice policies. I’m wondering if it’s worth it and how to go about it. Anyone had similar experience? On the bright side, this could be my lever to get Tony transferred to the Colo. Virtual Academy, an online public school funded by the state. Free PC and Internet access, or reimbursement for use of existing facilities, which we have in abundance. No more 7:00 a.m. commutes, dress code Nazis, etc. Maybe I should encourage a little reprisal.

He’d miss out on friends and the experience gained through socialization. That’s a big deal for a kid; for anyone. If the organization does not handle this to your satisfaction and you feel the environment could be better, look at moving him to someplace else– either a private or religious- affiliated school. He’ll have to make new friends, but it will happen. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany — "it’s the network…" "The Journey is the reward" Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Response:

A $20 bill fell out of his pocket at school this morning – part of the

week’s lunch money I gave him yesterday. Another kid grabbed it and socked Tony in the jaw, then split.

Aggravated assault and robbery is aggravated assault and robbery whether you are nine or ninety. This one ain’t the school’s call, it belongs to the cops. Not to mention that it is that nurse’s job to report it. If she saw signs that you had kicked Tony’s ass you can bet you would get a visit from the boys in blue. If the other kid skates on this, Tony is going to have a rep as an easy mark for every dickhead on the school campus. BrotherBart (who had that easy mark rep until he waited in the school parking lot for the last asshole)

Response:

Well, I wouldn’t be tempted to let it slide. The attacker would be arrested in short order if he mugged a stranger on the street.

You live in a very small town, don’t you? Just got an update from Tony’s Spanish teacher, who’s filling in for the absent Student Advisor. The perp and his apparent cronies are still at large, having ditched school. The manhunt continues, although hounds have not yet been loosed. Sounds like several people got involved in the melee, including some who came to Tony’s defense. The latter is good news, as is the reassurance that Tony will not be suspended. I’ll fully believe that when I have it in writing. That other kid is apparently broken.

I’m told that the one who nailed Tony left "in worse shape than Tony is in." Makes a Poppa proud in a politically incorrect way. You’re in CO? Tell Tony to tell the cops that the other kid said he had a gun and see how fast he disappears into the system. *poof*

Right. Then I’ll tell him to accuse that teacher he doesn’t like of sexual harassment.

Response:

He’d miss out on friends and the experience gained through socialization. That’s a big deal for a kid; for anyone.

If I keep him locked up all day and control all he sees or hears, as some religious home-schoolers do. But properly un-schooled children grow up better socialized than their peers locked in age-segregated classes. They learn by getting out and meeting people of all ages who are doing the things in which the student is interested.

Response:

A $20 bill fell out of his pocket at school this morning – part of the week’s lunch money I gave him yesterday. Another kid grabbed it and socked Tony in the jaw, then split. Aggravated assault and robbery is aggravated assault and robbery whether you are nine or ninety. This one ain’t the school’s call, it belongs to the cops. Not to mention that it is that nurse’s job to report it. If she saw signs that you had kicked Tony’s ass you can bet you would get a visit from the boys in blue. If the other kid skates on this, Tony is going to have a rep as an easy mark for every dickhead on the school campus.

I agree. Indeed, my thoughts of home-schooling revolve around the premise. The cops are involved and were so instantly. The nurse called me to report, not conceal. Details are still emerging. I now gather that Tony confronted the perp after being alerted by a friend that the perp had taken up the money that Tony dropped. What was said and who threw the first punch remain unknown.

Response:

Oops.

Response:

I would too, for much the same reason. It wasn’t just theft, it was assault too–that should be on his record, so if he does it again they can’t pretend it was just a one-time thing. It may also affect the school’s ranking, as it will become a documented incidence of violence at the school, which may motivate them to do something about it. -Bertha — There are two major products to come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don’t believe this to be a coincidence.

Response:

muttered something like: I guess it depends on how school system handles it. Here they’d be expelled, and I’d be good with that. But I’d also drag the cops in, just so they can move him up a little higher up on their unofficial "likely to be a suspect someday" list. I would too, for much the same reason. It wasn’t just theft, it was assault too–that should be on his record, so if he does it again they can’t pretend it was just a one-time thing. It may also affect the school’s ranking, as it will become a documented incidence of violence at the school, which may motivate them to do something about it.

You’d be surprised at how doctored such documents become. Major mayhem gets classified as "other infractions of school policy."

Response:

Details are still emerging. I now gather that Tony confronted the perp after being alerted by a friend that the perp had taken up the money that Tony dropped. What was said and who threw the first punch remain unknown. Ah! This is generally the case. I hope that when all the chips have fallen you won’t be in for a disappointing surprise. The hardest part for a parent in this situation is to remain totally neutral and not form an opinion till all the facts are revealed.

My current opinion is that Tony needs a new wallet.

Response:

Hey, it wasn’t MY kid who cut and ran when the cops showed up. Stubborn little shit wouldn’t take a free day off from school, either. And when I called his cell a little while ago, he refused a ride home. The possibility of getting jumped during the half-mile walk to the bus stop does concern me a bit. But he has his friends.

Response:

Headline: Local Bully Downed by Fusillade of Rubber Bands Witnesses say he also had a rocket shoved up his rectum and launched.

Response:

My current opinion is that Tony needs a new wallet. I couldn’t agree more! This is the perfect one that will keep him close to his money. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8222619641

A cross? Rita, you don’t know my son. This would be more to his liking: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8222850983

Response:

On the bright side, this could be my lever to get Tony transferred to the Colo. Virtual Academy, an online public school funded by the state. Free PC and Internet access, or reimbursement for use of existing facilities, which we have in abundance. No more 7:00 a.m. commutes, dress code Nazis, etc. Maybe I should encourage a little reprisal. I would, if he’s the kind of kid to work without supervision.

I’ve been weaning him from supervision for some time. Seems to be working well. "Dad, we’re out of ice cream." "Son, the lawn still isn’t mowed." End of subject. Of course, there’s also the issue of whether too much protection will make him fearsome.

Not an issue with my only (to the best of my knowledge) child. I sometimes wish he feared a little more… including me, in certain circumstances. It’s a crime, small crime, but it really can’t be permitted.

When I think back on the blows I exchanged in middle and early HS, I agree with you. But the parent in me is hollering, "ASSAULT & BATTERY!! ARMED ROBBERY!!!" Well, the fist was on the end of the perp’s arm, I assume. I’ll have a talk with Tony when he gets home. It’s his call how to handle this. I just want to discuss our options and their potential consequences… like getting an extra hour’s sleep in the morning.

Response:

My instinct is to demand the perp’s head, of course. Probably won’t even learn if the perp is caught without a big fight, given school and juvie justice policies. I’m wondering if it’s worth it and how to go about it. Anyone had similar experience? I don’t know how they handle physical violence in your area, but on the East coast our public school system have adopted the "No Thinking" policy were both parties are automatically suspended pending an investigation.

Tony’s not going to be suspended, I’m told. But I’ve only spoken with a nurse so far. Could be the kangaroos are in chambers. It’s not really a bad idea to get a victim out of further harm’s way for a while. But they need a "protective suspension" category. My suggestion is put him in a private school

PAY for SCHOOLING??? I reserve my money for his education, thanks. Besides, there aren’t any secular private schools within quite a few miles of us, and Tony doesn’t mix well with religion.

Response:

I would, if he’s the kind of kid to work without supervision. He’ll have the opportunity to soar above the rest. Of course, there’s also the issue of whether too much protection will make him fearsome. (We’re dealing with some of that right now, with the mentally-challenged foster child that my daughter and son-in-law now are parenting…..and it’s tough.) I wouldn’t take action immediately, but would encourage your son to cooperate with the investigation (including a visit to the perp’s home and talk with the "parents"). It’s a crime, small crime, but it really can’t be permitted. Kris

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tony’s a freshman at a Denver public school. A $20 bill fell out of his pocket at school this morning – part of the week’s lunch money I gave him yesterday. Another kid grabbed it and socked Tony in the jaw, then split. Investigation in progress. School nurse says Tony’s jaw is swollen but no concussion yet. Tony says he wants to finish out the school day. I told him to call me if he changes his mind. He’s reluctant to cooperate with the investigation for fear of reprisal. A witness seems to have IDed the perp, according to the nurse. My instinct is to demand the perp’s head, of course. Probably won’t even learn if the perp is caught without a big fight, given school and juvie justice policies. I’m wondering if it’s worth it and how to go about it. Anyone had similar experience?

I guess it depends on how school system handles it. Here they’d be expelled, and I’d be good with that. But I’d also drag the cops in, just so they can move him up a little higher up on their unofficial "likely to be a suspect someday" list. A

Response:

Tony’s a freshman at a Denver public school. A $20 bill fell out of his pocket at school this morning – part of the week’s lunch money I gave him yesterday. Another kid grabbed it and socked Tony in the jaw, then split. Investigation in progress. School nurse says Tony’s jaw is swollen but no concussion yet. Tony says he wants to finish out the school day. I told him to call me if he changes his mind. He’s reluctant to cooperate with the investigation for fear of reprisal. A witness seems to have IDed the perp, according to the nurse. My instinct is to demand the perp’s head, of course. Probably won’t even learn if the perp is caught without a big fight, given school and juvie justice policies. I’m wondering if it’s worth it and how to go about it. Anyone had similar experience? On the bright side, this could be my lever to get Tony transferred to the Colo. Virtual Academy, an online public school funded by the state. Free PC and Internet access, or reimbursement for use of existing facilities, which we have in abundance. No more 7:00 a.m. commutes, dress code Nazis, etc. Maybe I should encourage a little reprisal.

Response:

You mustn't name them

admin — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

It’s coming up on the bitties’….well, not adoption day. Sucker-DP-Into-Being-Our-Mother Day is more like it. We never formally adopted them. After finding them in a pile of trash, at 3 weeks old, DP began referring to them as "Dark Face" and "Light Face." Both are primarily brown tabby, but Tyche has a white face, white socks of varying length (though one is just four fingertips and a thumb sticking out of a long tabby "glove") and orange tabby spots randomly across her back and legs….whereas Kumani is almost entirely brown tabby save two toes (left front and right rear paw) and had a very black nose as a kitten. The next night, I came home on leave from military service to see DP’s little rescues and I said, if we were going to be their foster parents we had to think of something better than Darkface and Lightface. He said, "We can’t name them–then we have to keep them!" I said, "We ALSO can’t keep referring to them as Darkface and Lightface or those will end up being THEIR NAMES." He agreed that those were not appropriate names. Therefore–due to the twist of fate or the simple good fortune that we found them–DarkFace became Kumani (our Destiny) and LightFace became Tyche (our Luck). –Fil

Response:

Enfilade skrev i meddelandet – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It’s coming up on the bitties’….well, not adoption day. Sucker-DP-Into-Being-Our-Mother Day is more like it. We never formally adopted them. After finding them in a pile of trash, at 3 weeks old, DP began referring to them as "Dark Face" and "Light Face." Both are primarily brown tabby, but Tyche has a white face, white socks of varying length (though one is just four fingertips and a thumb sticking out of a long tabby "glove") and orange tabby spots randomly across her back and legs….whereas Kumani is almost entirely brown tabby save two toes (left front and right rear paw) and had a very black nose as a kitten. The next night, I came home on leave from military service to see DP’s little rescues and I said, if we were going to be their foster parents we had to think of something better than Darkface and Lightface. He said, "We can’t name them–then we have to keep them!" I said, "We ALSO can’t keep referring to them as Darkface and Lightface or those will end up being THEIR NAMES." He agreed that those were not appropriate names. Therefore–due to the twist of fate or the simple good fortune that we found them–DarkFace became Kumani (our Destiny) and LightFace became Tyche (our Luck). –Fil

Happy (non)ADOPTION day! Elisabet and Hugo Katt

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s coming up on the bitties’….well, not adoption day. Sucker-DP-Into-Being-Our-Mother Day is more like it. We never formally adopted them. After finding them in a pile of trash, at 3 weeks old, DP began referring to them as "Dark Face" and "Light Face." Both are primarily brown tabby, but Tyche has a white face, white socks of varying length (though one is just four fingertips and a thumb sticking out of a long tabby "glove") and orange tabby spots randomly across her back and legs….whereas Kumani is almost entirely brown tabby save two toes (left front and right rear paw) and had a very black nose as a kitten. The next night, I came home on leave from military service to see DP’s little rescues and I said, if we were going to be their foster parents we had to think of something better than Darkface and Lightface. He said, "We can’t name them–then we have to keep them!" I said, "We ALSO can’t keep referring to them as Darkface and Lightface or those will end up being THEIR NAMES." He agreed that those were not appropriate names. Therefore–due to the twist of fate or the simple good fortune that we found them–DarkFace became Kumani (our Destiny) and LightFace became Tyche (our Luck). –Fil

How lucky they both were that your DP was so kind. Tweed

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It’s coming up on the bitties’….well, not adoption day. Sucker-DP-Into-Being-Our-Mother Day is more like it. We never formally adopted them. After finding them in a pile of trash, at 3 weeks old, DP began referring to them as "Dark Face" and "Light Face." Both are primarily brown tabby, but Tyche has a white face, white socks of varying length (though one is just four fingertips and a thumb sticking out of a long tabby "glove") and orange tabby spots randomly across her back and legs….whereas Kumani is almost entirely brown tabby save two toes (left front and right rear paw) and had a very black nose as a kitten. The next night, I came home on leave from military service to see DP’s little rescues and I said, if we were going to be their foster parents we had to think of something better than Darkface and Lightface. He said, "We can’t name them–then we have to keep them!"

So funny. I can just see myself still calling Stinky "Kitty"– and "Bad Kitty!" ;) Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

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Happy "We Suckered You Into Becoming Our Hoomins" Day! Smart little bitties, Tyche and Kumani.

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He said, "We can’t name them–then we have to keep them!"

This is what I didn’t want to say to Sherry. Happy Suckering Day, Tyche and Kumani! — Marina, Frank and Miranda. In loving memory of Nikki. marina (dot) kurten (at) iki (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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He said, "We can’t name them–then we have to keep them!" Which is exactly what my roommate said to me when I brought Mischief home. And the same thing we agreed when I brough Mayhem home. *sigh* Kristi

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Well, we’re all glad you named them )! Happy "Bitties stole your hearts" day! Donna, Captain, and Stanley

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He said, "We can’t name them–then we have to keep them!" I said, "We ALSO can’t keep referring to them as Darkface and Lightface or those will end up being THEIR NAMES." He agreed that those were not appropriate names. Therefore–due to the twist of fate or the simple good fortune that we found them–DarkFace became Kumani (our Destiny) and LightFace became Tyche (our Luck). –Fil Very interesting, I guess naming cats "our fate" and "our destiny" aren’t a good way to get rid/give away two kitten. ;o) Ten minutes after I met Spicey I named her. Joanne said I was keeping her. Suz&Spicey

Response:

New Warning About Marijuana Use

admin — Tue, 03 May 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

bad parenting,, causes all these MORE than marijuana does,, drunken parents cause their kids to become depressed and have suicidal thoughts more often than them smokin a joint could ever do,, how about popularity??? it causes all these as well,, with kids being alienated at school and not belonging to the ”popular group” causes them to become suicidal and depressed as well. Zits cause this problem in teens too,,, i can make a truley excellent research paper prove that kids kill themselves due to having BAd ACNE,,!!!!!! it causes alineation, it causes depression, suicidal thoughts too,, i could make anything look like a causal factor if i used stats in the same manner,,, maybe these4 idiots should ask ”Why do kids seek out a way to escape from the reality of their home life???” whether it be pot coke booze pills crystal meth heroin etc etc,,, that is what is the CAUSE of teens mental probs and thoughts of suicide and depression. that is the causal factor,, not the drug they seek out to escape from their torment,,, the torment cuased the death. if i hold somones head under water,, the cause of death is drowning,, do they blame the water ??? or do they blame whoever held the head under water??? kids dont just go nuts,, all of a sudden,, they do it because of how others make them feel,,, its all related to how they are made to feel , by school chums ,parents , society,,,, to many people regurgitate the same buyllcrap over the years,, this same stuff was said last time and attributed to soldiers in the UK who had ccome home from battle in war,, they went psycho cause they smoked pot as teenagers that dumbass study claimed!!!! notjhing to do with killing other humans in war, makin them go nuts,, but it was all attributed to them trying pot when they were teens!!! caused them to be phychos after they gopt back from a tour of duty???? PLEASE please enough of the crap studies eh!!!! was this study they did published in the British medical journals>>> ?? bobbyD "Michael" wrote in message

news:0dydnfgjAbcDq-XfRVn-jw@qcislands.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Feds Sound New Warning About Marijuana Use >> By PAULINE JELINEK >> Associated Press Writer > Oh… and it’s obvious that Jelinek’s sole source for her entire AP story > was the self-serving and carefully orchestrated press release that the > ONDCP put out today. She made absolutely no effort to corroborate or > debunk a single word of it. That’s not journalism, it’s propaganda > dissemination. > http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050503/cgtu032.html?.v=7 > Press Release Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy > White House Drug Czar, Research and Mental Health Communities Warn Parents > That Marijuana Use Can Lead to Depression, Suicidal Thoughts and > Schizophrenia > Tuesday May 3, 10:00 am ET > Serious Psychiatric Impact of Marijuana Use Evident in Growing Body of > Research > WASHINGTON, May 3 /PRNewswire/ — The Nation’s Drug Czar, John P. Walters, > and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) > Administrator, Charles G. Curie, joined with scientists and experts from > the leading mental health organizations today to alert parents about the > danger marijuana poses to their teens’ mental health. > "A growing body of evidence now demonstrates that smoking marijuana can > increase the risk of serious mental health problems," said Walters, > Director of National Drug Control Policy. "New research being conducted > here and abroad illustrates that marijuana use, particularly during the > teen years, can lead to depression, thoughts of suicide, and > schizophrenia. This is yet another reason that parents must stay closely > involved with their teens and ensure that they are not smoking marijuana." > A number of prominent studies have recently identified a direct link > between marijuana use and increased risk of mental health problems. Recent > research makes a stronger case that cannabis smoking itself is a causal > agent in psychiatric symptoms, particularly schizophrenia. During the past > three years, these studies have strengthened that association and further > found that the age when marijuana is first smoked is a crucial risk factor > in later development of mental health problems. > A report released today from SAMSHA found that adults who first used > marijuana before age 12 were twice as likely as adults who first used > marijuana at age 18 or older to be classified as having serious mental > illness in the past year than were adults who first used marijuana at age > 18 or older. > "Kids today are using marijuana at younger ages, putting them at greater > risk," said Charles G. Curie, SAMHSA Administrator. "We have found that > the younger a person starts smoking marijuana, the greater the likelihood > they have of developing an addiction and serious mental illness later in > life." > "Mental health disorders such as depression and schizophrenia contribute > to the mortality of our citizens, and suicide is one of the leading > preventable causes of death," said U.S. Surgeon General Richard H. > Carmona, M.D., M.P.H., F.A.C.S. "As a society we must do everything we can > to promote mental health and prevent mental illness – and that includes > keeping our kids drug-free. Parents and teens alike must realize the > long-term effects marijuana can have on the brain." > Several recent studies have linked youth marijuana use with depression, > suicidal thoughts and schizophrenia: > – Young people who use marijuana weekly have double the risk of > developing depression. > – Teens aged 12 to 17 who smoke marijuana weekly are three times more > likely than non-users to have suicidal thoughts. > – Marijuana use in some teens has been linked to increased risk for > schizophrenia in later years. > – A British study found that as many as one in four people may have a > genetic profile that makes marijuana five times more likely to > trigger > psychotic disorders. > Evidence has recently emerged that some people’s genetic make-up may > predispose them to be particularly vulnerable to the effects of marijuana > on mental health. For instance, a major study out of the Netherlands > concluded that use of the drug "moderately increases" the risk of > psychotic symptoms in young people but has "a much stronger effect" in > those with evidence of predisposition. > "The nonchalance about marijuana in Europe and the U.S. is worrisome," > said Neil McKeganey, Ph.D., Professor of Drug Misuse Research and > Director, Centre for Drug Misuse Research, University of Glasgow, Glasgow, > Scotland. "Marijuana is the first illegal drug that many young people use > and teens don’t view it as a serious drug, and when children are exposed > only to advice from kids like themselves, the risks seem meaningless. > We’re starting to see marijuana in a new light given recent research into > the connection between marijuana and mental illness." > This new evidence comes with a warning to parents, as they are the most > important influence in their teens’ lives when it comes to drugs. "Tell > your teens the facts and tell them not to use marijuana," said Robert L. > DuPont, M.D., President of the Institute for Behavior and Health, Inc., > and a leading advocate for the power of parents in preventing drug use. > "Take meaningful actions to see that they do not. A vital part of your job > as a parent is helping your teen grow up drug-free." > As part of the Office of National Drug Control Policy’s (ONDCP) National > Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign, this outreach effort features a compendium > of recent research linking marijuana and mental illness and an Open Letter > to parents on "Marijuana and Your Teen’s Mental Health." The letter > highlights some of the new research about the serious consequences of teen > marijuana use on mental health and is signed by ONDCP and 12 of the > Nation’s leading mental health, behavioral health and addiction treatment > organizations: American Psychiatric Association; American Academy of Child > and Adolescent Psychiatry; American Society of Addiction Medicine; Asian > Community Mental Health Services; Association for Medical Education and > Research in Substance Abuse; Institute for Behavior and Health, Inc.; > National Asian American Pacific Islander Mental Health Association; > National Association of Addiction Treatment Providers; National Council > for Community Behavioral Healthcare; National Latino Behavioral Health > Association; National Medical Association; and the Partnership for a > Drug-Free America. The letter begins appearing next week in USA Today and > newspapers in the 25 largest cities nationwide, including The New York > Times and The Washington Post, and will also run in The Nation, The > National Journal, The National Review, The New Republic, Newsweek, Time > and The Weekly Standard. > On the Media Campaign’s Web site for parents, http://TheAntiDrug.com , > adults can learn more about how marijuana affects the developing teen > brain, including the links between marijuana and depression, suicidal > thoughts and schizophrenia. Visitors can take a virtual tour of a human > brain to learn how marijuana impairs, and even changes, the functionality > of the centers responsible for maintaining overall mental health. Parents > can also view responses from a qualified psychiatrist on the most common > questions regarding marijuana and mental health. > For more information on the ONDCP National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign, > visit http://www.MediaCampaign.org . > ————————————————————————— —– > Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

Response:

I think the fact that children aren’t getting treated for mental health issues and their own families are seriously causing them mental damage is more alarming. Case in point… One of the schools I teach in is in a very affluent area (white rock for those BCers) I teach elementary school, learning resource so I see students from K-7. In the 2 grade 7 classes (about 50 kids altogether) I know of at least 10 sure cases of kids using pot. There are also another 5 or six of them we suspect are using on a regular basis. It’s heartbreaking because these students are choosing an outlet that isn’t helpful for them. Their family lives suck, their parents could care less, they have serious emotional issues. But no one is helping these kids. And with kids left with little supervision what else are they going to do? Out of the bunch of students I see, we already have 4 pegged to drop out of highschool next year. Obviously something is going wrong somewhere when children 11, 12 and 13 are smoking pot and drinking. One kid told me he doesn’t care about anything and since he feels worthless why not do what he’s doing. If the gov’t would invest money in mental health and support for families, I think we would see less drug and alcohol abuse around the board. Jen "GT Tick" wrote in message

news:21910-42782CD5-625@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This should set off a firestorm from the depressed and schizophrenic. > — > — > Feds Sound New Warning About Marijuana Use > By PAULINE JELINEK > Associated Press Writer > WASHINGTON (AP) — Youngsters who use marijuana are more likely to > develop serious mental health problems, the government said Tuesday. A > private group said law enforcement increasingly is targeting people who > smoke and deal the drug. > Past medical studies have linked marijuana with a greater incidence of > mental disorders such as depression or schizophrenia. But questions > remain about whether people who smoke marijuana at a young age are > already predisposed to mental disorders, or whether the drug caused > those disorders. > Government officials say recent research makes a stronger case that > smoking marijuana is itself a causal agent in psychiatric symptoms, > particularly schizophrenia. > "A growing body of evidence now demonstrates that smoking marijuana can > increase the risk of serious mental health problems," said John P. > Walters, director of the White House Office of Drug Control Policy. > Administration officials pointed to a handful of studies to make their > case. One, from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services > Administration, found adult marijuana smokers who first began using the > drug before age 12 were twice as likely to have suffered a serious > mental illness in the past year as those who began smoking after 18. > The ratio was 21 percent to 10.5 percent. Those who first started as > teens also were at significantly higher risk. > Also Tuesday, The Sentencing Project released a report that found the > government’s "war on drugs" has become the "war on drug" as police > agencies increasingly target marijuana. > Begun in the 1980s, the war on drugs was aimed at stopping large-scale > narcotics traffickers, particularly those selling cocaine. But since > 1990 more of the focus has been on catching users and low-level dealers. > And more often than ever, the drug targeted is marijuana, according to > the group, a national nonprofit organization that works on judicial > reform and favors alternatives to jail. > Of some 700,000 marijuana arrests in 2002, 88 percent were for > possession, it said. And only one of every 18 of those arrests ended in > a felony conviction. > "Arresting record numbers of low-level marijuana offenders represents a > poor investment in public safety" and diverts resources from "more > serious crime problems," said Ryan King, co-author of the report. > King found that in 1992 arrests for heroin and cocaine comprised 55 > percent of all drug arrests and marijuana 28 percent. A decade later > heroin and cocaine arrests accounted for less than 30 percent of all > arrests, while marijuana’s share had risen to 45 percent. > Jennifer deVallance, spokeswoman for the White House drug office, said > there are many reasons for the greater focus on marijuana. Among them: > Marijuana is the single largest drug of abuse in the nation, the strains > are more potent than ever and more is known about health dangers. > "For the first time, more kids are seeking treatment for marijuana use > than alcohol," she said. > The Sentencing Project called for renewed national discussion of the war > on drugs, an idea echoed by the conservative American Enterprise > Institute. The group reported last month that despite spending at about > $40 billion a year now and toughening drug sentencing laws, "America > continues to experience the Western world’s worst drug problems." > An epidemic of heroin use more than three decades ago, followed by a > 1980s epidemic of cocaine and crack, prompted a massive intensification > in drug enforcement while giving short shrift to prevention and > treatment, the institute reported. It decried budgeting that spends > two-thirds of drug control funds on enforcement, 25 percent on treatment > and just 12 percent on prevention. > — > Associated Press reporter Kevin Freking contributed to this story. > — > On the Net: > The Sentencing Project: http://www.sentencingproject.org > Office of National Drug Control Policy: > http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov > *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** > Visit Me At Tick’s Place… > http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

Response:

"Jennifer" wrote in message

news:p%Wde.1213145$8l.414796@pd7tw1no… >I think the fact that children aren’t getting treated for mental health > issues and their own families are seriously causing them mental damage is > more alarming. > Case in point… One of the schools I teach in is in a very affluent area > (white rock for those BCers) I teach elementary school, learning resource > so > I see students from K-7. In the 2 grade 7 classes (about 50 kids > altogether) > I know of at least 10 sure cases of kids using pot. There are also another > 5 > or six of them we suspect are using on a regular basis. It’s heartbreaking > because these students are choosing an outlet that isn’t helpful for them.

that makes me very sad,, doesnt matter the drug,, i dont let my kids toke,, i dont let them smoke cigs or drink booze,, ever,,, untill they are grown adults and living in their own home paying theor own way., > Their family lives suck, their parents could care less, they have serious > emotional issues. But no one is helping these kids. And with kids left > with > little supervision what else are they going to do? Out of the bunch of > students I see, we already have 4 pegged to drop out of highschool next > year.

i cant believe the school cant get social services involved,,, with their parents,,, what really kills me is that i cant believe any parent could do this to their kids,, i love mine so much i would never let them be so alone that they would look elsewhere for support,, parents must be inviolved with their kids all the time,,, > Obviously something is going wrong somewhere when children 11, 12 and 13 > are > smoking pot and drinking. One kid told me he doesn’t care about anything > and > since he feels worthless why not do what he’s doing.

there is the problem,, not the booze,, not the pot,, not the Vandalism,, gang crap,, the problem is the PARENT ,, and that parents lack of parenting skills or caring,, or loving their child ,, giving everything you have for your kids,,, If the gov’t would > invest money in mental health and support for families, I think we would > see > less drug and alcohol abuse around the board. > Jen

the word is abuse,, and when someone abuses something it is bad,, abusing drugs, or even food or sex,, for that matter,, but the problem with these kids is the lack of participation in their lives by their parents,, it always has been the reason!!!!! bobbyD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "GT Tick" wrote in message > news:21910-42782CD5-625@storefull-3238.bay.webtv.net… >> This should set off a firestorm from the depressed and schizophrenic. >> — >> — >> Feds Sound New Warning About Marijuana Use >> By PAULINE JELINEK >> Associated Press Writer >> WASHINGTON (AP) — Youngsters who use marijuana are more likely to >> develop serious mental health problems, the government said Tuesday. A >> private group said law enforcement increasingly is targeting people who >> smoke and deal the drug. >> Past medical studies have linked marijuana with a greater incidence of >> mental disorders such as depression or schizophrenia. But questions >> remain about whether people who smoke marijuana at a young age are >> already predisposed to mental disorders, or whether the drug caused >> those disorders. >> Government officials say recent research makes a stronger case that >> smoking marijuana is itself a causal agent in psychiatric symptoms, >> particularly schizophrenia. >> "A growing body of evidence now demonstrates that smoking marijuana can >> increase the risk of serious mental health problems," said John P. >> Walters, director of the White House Office of Drug Control Policy. >> Administration officials pointed to a handful of studies to make their >> case. One, from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services >> Administration, found adult marijuana smokers who first began using the >> drug before age 12 were twice as likely to have suffered a serious >> mental illness in the past year as those who began smoking after 18. >> The ratio was 21 percent to 10.5 percent. Those who first started as >> teens also were at significantly higher risk. >> Also Tuesday, The Sentencing Project released a report that found the >> government’s "war on drugs" has become the "war on drug" as police >> agencies increasingly target marijuana. >> Begun in the 1980s, the war on drugs was aimed at stopping large-scale >> narcotics traffickers, particularly those selling cocaine. But since >> 1990 more of the focus has been on catching users and low-level dealers. >> And more often than ever, the drug targeted is marijuana, according to >> the group, a national nonprofit organization that works on judicial >> reform and favors alternatives to jail. >> Of some 700,000 marijuana arrests in 2002, 88 percent were for >> possession, it said. And only one of every 18 of those arrests ended in >> a felony conviction. >> "Arresting record numbers of low-level marijuana offenders represents a >> poor investment in public safety" and diverts resources from "more >> serious crime problems," said Ryan King, co-author of the report. >> King found that in 1992 arrests for heroin and cocaine comprised 55 >> percent of all drug arrests and marijuana 28 percent. A decade later >> heroin and cocaine arrests accounted for less than 30 percent of all >> arrests, while marijuana’s share had risen to 45 percent. >> Jennifer deVallance, spokeswoman for the White House drug office, said >> there are many reasons for the greater focus on marijuana. Among them: >> Marijuana is the single largest drug of abuse in the nation, the strains >> are more potent than ever and more is known about health dangers. >> "For the first time, more kids are seeking treatment for marijuana use >> than alcohol," she said. >> The Sentencing Project called for renewed national discussion of the war >> on drugs, an idea echoed by the conservative American Enterprise >> Institute. The group reported last month that despite spending at about >> $40 billion a year now and toughening drug sentencing laws, "America >> continues to experience the Western world’s worst drug problems." >> An epidemic of heroin use more than three decades ago, followed by a >> 1980s epidemic of cocaine and crack, prompted a massive intensification >> in drug enforcement while giving short shrift to prevention and >> treatment, the institute reported. It decried budgeting that spends >> two-thirds of drug control funds on enforcement, 25 percent on treatment >> and just 12 percent on prevention. >> — >> Associated Press reporter Kevin Freking contributed to this story. >> — >> On the Net: >> The Sentencing Project: http://www.sentencingproject.org >> Office of National Drug Control Policy: >> http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov >> *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** >> Visit Me At Tick’s Place… >> http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

Response:

Michael wrote: > 1) Perhaps they’d like to ‘fess up about the fact that the rise in > youngsters "seeking" treatment for marijuana use is almost entirely the > product of judges offering them the choice of treatment or incarceration as > sentencing options.

michael, i actually think there’s a different reason for the increase. minors do not — they CANNOT — check themselves into rehab without parental permission. they can attend 12-step groups or other self-help programs, but not inpatient treatment. i think much of the rise has to do with the new emphasis on anti-MARIJUANA hysteria and the impact it has on parents. 10 years ago, at least in southern cali, many if not most parents tended to view their kids’ pot-smoking as normal adolescent behavior, basically on a par with underage drinking. sure, some teen drinkers and teen pot smokers will go on to become alcoholics or burnt-out stoners, but the majority will grow up just fine. i think more parents realized that — not to say they approved, or didn’t have talks with their kids about both drinking and smoking pot, but i don’t think there was the same level of parental fear that there is now that the anti-marijuana blitz is underway. rather than viewing their kids as ‘experimenting,’ many parents are so freaked out by the anti-pot hysteria being propogated, that they seem to fear that if they don’t check the kid into rehab the first time they catch him/her with a jont, their kid is doomed to become a thieving, needle-using high-school dropout headed for the penitentiary. i think parents who would previously maybe have talked to their kids about pot if they caught them with it are checking them into treatment centers more often, and i think that’s a direct result of the modern ‘war on drug.’ living in tweakerville, methtown, U.S.A., it makes me sick to see so much focus on the dangers of pot, while there are teenage meth heads who got their first hit off the tweak pipe from their own MOMS in plain view of social services, law enforcement, the foster care system, the whole damned neighborhood. ok, /mom soap-box! rose

Response:

> Feds Sound New Warning About Marijuana Use > By PAULINE JELINEK > Associated Press Writer

Oh… and it’s obvious that Jelinek’s sole source for her entire AP story was the self-serving and carefully orchestrated press release that the ONDCP put out today. She made absolutely no effort to corroborate or debunk a single word of it. That’s not journalism, it’s propaganda dissemination. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050503/cgtu032.html?.v=7 Press Release Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy White House Drug Czar, Research and Mental Health Communities Warn Parents That Marijuana Use Can Lead to Depression, Suicidal Thoughts and Schizophrenia Tuesday May 3, 10:00 am ET Serious Psychiatric Impact of Marijuana Use Evident in Growing Body of Research WASHINGTON, May 3 /PRNewswire/ — The Nation’s Drug Czar, John P. Walters, and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) Administrator, Charles G. Curie, joined with scientists and experts from the leading mental health organizations today to alert parents about the danger marijuana poses to their teens’ mental health. "A growing body of evidence now demonstrates that smoking marijuana can increase the risk of serious mental health problems," said Walters, Director of National Drug Control Policy. "New research being conducted here and abroad illustrates that marijuana use, particularly during the teen years, can lead to depression, thoughts of suicide, and schizophrenia. This is yet another reason that parents must stay closely involved with their teens and ensure that they are not smoking marijuana." A number of prominent studies have recently identified a direct link between marijuana use and increased risk of mental health problems. Recent research makes a stronger case that cannabis smoking itself is a causal agent in psychiatric symptoms, particularly schizophrenia. During the past three years, these studies have strengthened that association and further found that the age when marijuana is first smoked is a crucial risk factor in later development of mental health problems. A report released today from SAMSHA found that adults who first used marijuana before age 12 were twice as likely as adults who first used marijuana at age 18 or older to be classified as having serious mental illness in the past year than were adults who first used marijuana at age 18 or older. "Kids today are using marijuana at younger ages, putting them at greater risk," said Charles G. Curie, SAMHSA Administrator. "We have found that the younger a person starts smoking marijuana, the greater the likelihood they have of developing an addiction and serious mental illness later in life." "Mental health disorders such as depression and schizophrenia contribute to the mortality of our citizens, and suicide is one of the leading preventable causes of death," said U.S. Surgeon General Richard H. Carmona, M.D., M.P.H., F.A.C.S. "As a society we must do everything we can to promote mental health and prevent mental illness – and that includes keeping our kids drug-free. Parents and teens alike must realize the long-term effects marijuana can have on the brain." Several recent studies have linked youth marijuana use with depression, suicidal thoughts and schizophrenia: — Young people who use marijuana weekly have double the risk of developing depression. — Teens aged 12 to 17 who smoke marijuana weekly are three times more likely than non-users to have suicidal thoughts. — Marijuana use in some teens has been linked to increased risk for schizophrenia in later years. — A British study found that as many as one in four people may have a genetic profile that makes marijuana five times more likely to trigger psychotic disorders. Evidence has recently emerged that some people’s genetic make-up may predispose them to be particularly vulnerable to the effects of marijuana on mental health. For instance, a major study out of the Netherlands concluded that use of the drug "moderately increases" the risk of psychotic symptoms in young people but has "a much stronger effect" in those with evidence of predisposition. "The nonchalance about marijuana in Europe and the U.S. is worrisome," said Neil McKeganey, Ph.D., Professor of Drug Misuse Research and Director, Centre for Drug Misuse Research, University of Glasgow, Glasgow, Scotland. "Marijuana is the first illegal drug that many young people use and teens don’t view it as a serious drug, and when children are exposed only to advice from kids like themselves, the risks seem meaningless. We’re starting to see marijuana in a new light given recent research into the connection between marijuana and mental illness." This new evidence comes with a warning to parents, as they are the most important influence in their teens’ lives when it comes to drugs. "Tell your teens the facts and tell them not to use marijuana," said Robert L. DuPont, M.D., President of the Institute for Behavior and Health, Inc., and a leading advocate for the power of parents in preventing drug use. "Take meaningful actions to see that they do not. A vital part of your job as a parent is helping your teen grow up drug-free." As part of the Office of National Drug Control Policy’s (ONDCP) National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign, this outreach effort features a compendium of recent research linking marijuana and mental illness and an Open Letter to parents on "Marijuana and Your Teen’s Mental Health." The letter highlights some of the new research about the serious consequences of teen marijuana use on mental health and is signed by ONDCP and 12 of the Nation’s leading mental health, behavioral health and addiction treatment organizations: American Psychiatric Association; American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry; American Society of Addiction Medicine; Asian Community Mental Health Services; Association for Medical Education and Research in Substance Abuse; Institute for Behavior and Health, Inc.; National Asian American Pacific Islander Mental Health Association; National Association of Addiction Treatment Providers; National Council for Community Behavioral Healthcare; National Latino Behavioral Health Association; National Medical Association; and the Partnership for a Drug-Free America. The letter begins appearing next week in USA Today and newspapers in the 25 largest cities nationwide, including The New York Times and The Washington Post, and will also run in The Nation, The National Journal, The National Review, The New Republic, Newsweek, Time and The Weekly Standard. On the Media Campaign’s Web site for parents, http://TheAntiDrug.com , adults can learn more about how marijuana affects the developing teen brain, including the links between marijuana and depression, suicidal thoughts and schizophrenia. Visitors can take a virtual tour of a human brain to learn how marijuana impairs, and even changes, the functionality of the centers responsible for maintaining overall mental health. Parents can also view responses from a qualified psychiatrist on the most common questions regarding marijuana and mental health. For more information on the ONDCP National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign, visit http://www.MediaCampaign.org . ————————————————————————— —– Source: Office of National Drug Control Policy

Response:

This should set off a firestorm from the depressed and schizophrenic. — — Feds Sound New Warning About Marijuana Use By PAULINE JELINEK Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) — Youngsters who use marijuana are more likely to develop serious mental health problems, the government said Tuesday. A private group said law enforcement increasingly is targeting people who smoke and deal the drug. Past medical studies have linked marijuana with a greater incidence of mental disorders such as depression or schizophrenia. But questions remain about whether people who smoke marijuana at a young age are already predisposed to mental disorders, or whether the drug caused those disorders. Government officials say recent research makes a stronger case that smoking marijuana is itself a causal agent in psychiatric symptoms, particularly schizophrenia. "A growing body of evidence now demonstrates that smoking marijuana can increase the risk of serious mental health problems," said John P. Walters, director of the White House Office of Drug Control Policy. Administration officials pointed to a handful of studies to make their case. One, from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, found adult marijuana smokers who first began using the drug before age 12 were twice as likely to have suffered a serious mental illness in the past year as those who began smoking after 18. The ratio was 21 percent to 10.5 percent. Those who first started as teens also were at significantly higher risk. Also Tuesday, The Sentencing Project released a report that found the government’s "war on drugs" has become the "war on drug" as police agencies increasingly target marijuana. Begun in the 1980s, the war on drugs was aimed at stopping large-scale narcotics traffickers, particularly those selling cocaine. But since 1990 more of the focus has been on catching users and low-level dealers. And more often than ever, the drug targeted is marijuana, according to the group, a national nonprofit organization that works on judicial reform and favors alternatives to jail. Of some 700,000 marijuana arrests in 2002, 88 percent were for possession, it said. And only one of every 18 of those arrests ended in a felony conviction. "Arresting record numbers of low-level marijuana offenders represents a poor investment in public safety" and diverts resources from "more serious crime problems," said Ryan King, co-author of the report. King found that in 1992 arrests for heroin and cocaine comprised 55 percent of all drug arrests and marijuana 28 percent. A decade later heroin and cocaine arrests accounted for less than 30 percent of all arrests, while marijuana’s share had risen to 45 percent. Jennifer deVallance, spokeswoman for the White House drug office, said there are many reasons for the greater focus on marijuana. Among them: Marijuana is the single largest drug of abuse in the nation, the strains are more potent than ever and more is known about health dangers. "For the first time, more kids are seeking treatment for marijuana use than alcohol," she said. The Sentencing Project called for renewed national discussion of the war on drugs, an idea echoed by the conservative American Enterprise Institute. The group reported last month that despite spending at about $40 billion a year now and toughening drug sentencing laws, "America continues to experience the Western world’s worst drug problems." An epidemic of heroin use more than three decades ago, followed by a 1980s epidemic of cocaine and crack, prompted a massive intensification in drug enforcement while giving short shrift to prevention and treatment, the institute reported. It decried budgeting that spends two-thirds of drug control funds on enforcement, 25 percent on treatment and just 12 percent on prevention. — Associated Press reporter Kevin Freking contributed to this story. — On the Net: The Sentencing Project: http://www.sentencingproject.org Office of National Drug Control Policy: http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov *****Don’t Cry Because It’s Over…Smile Because It Happened.***** Visit Me At Tick’s Place… http://community-2.webtv.net/OLTICK/TICKSPLACE/

Response:

1) Perhaps they’d like to ‘fess up about the fact that the rise in youngsters "seeking" treatment for marijuana use is almost entirely the product of judges offering them the choice of treatment or incarceration as sentencing options. 2) Perhaps also, they can explain that with over 70 million pot smokers in America now – as contrasted with only a few tens of thousands in 1937 – there hasn’t been and astronomical rise in either the incidence or the prevalence of schizophrenia. They’re lying. They haven’t *stopped* lying for nearly 70 years. Oh, and… 3) Perhaps these same feds would like to explain why John P. Walters’ former deputy Drug Czar at ONDCP is now working as an FDA and Congressional lobbyist for a foreign manufacturer and distributor of hash-oil. ((U)) M GT Tick wrote: > This should set off a firestorm from the depressed and schizophrenic.

Feds Sound New Warning About Marijuana Use By PAULINE JELINEK Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) — Youngsters who use marijuana are more likely to develop serious mental health problems, the government said Tuesday. A private group said law enforcement increasingly is targeting people who smoke and deal the drug. Past medical studies have linked marijuana with a greater incidence of mental disorders such as depression or schizophrenia. But questions remain about whether people who smoke marijuana at a young age are already predisposed to mental disorders, or whether the drug caused those disorders. Government officials say recent research makes a stronger case that smoking marijuana is itself a causal agent in psychiatric symptoms, particularly schizophrenia. "A growing body of evidence now demonstrates that smoking marijuana can increase the risk of serious mental health problems," said John P. Walters, director of the White House Office of Drug Control Policy. Administration officials pointed to a handful of studies to make their case. One, from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, found adult marijuana smokers who first began using the drug before age 12 were twice as likely to have suffered a serious mental illness in the past year as those who began smoking after 18. The ratio was 21 percent to 10.5 percent. Those who first started as teens also were at significantly higher risk. Also Tuesday, The Sentencing Project released a report that found the government’s "war on drugs" has become the "war on drug" as police agencies increasingly target marijuana. Begun in the 1980s, the war on drugs was aimed at stopping large-scale narcotics traffickers, particularly those selling cocaine. But since 1990 more of the focus has been on catching users and low-level dealers. And more often than ever, the drug targeted is marijuana, according to the group, a national nonprofit organization that works on judicial reform and favors alternatives to jail. Of some 700,000 marijuana arrests in 2002, 88 percent were for possession, it said. And only one of every 18 of those arrests ended in a felony conviction. "Arresting record numbers of low-level marijuana offenders represents a poor investment in public safety" and diverts resources from "more serious crime problems," said Ryan King, co-author of the report. King found that in 1992 arrests for heroin and cocaine comprised 55 percent of all drug arrests and marijuana 28 percent. A decade later heroin and cocaine arrests accounted for less than 30 percent of all arrests, while marijuana’s share had risen to 45 percent. Jennifer deVallance, spokeswoman for the White House drug office, said there are many reasons for the greater focus on marijuana. Among them: Marijuana is the single largest drug of abuse in the nation, the strains are more potent than ever and more is known about health dangers. "For the first time, more kids are seeking treatment for marijuana use than alcohol," she said. The Sentencing Project called for renewed national discussion of the war on drugs, an idea echoed by the conservative American Enterprise Institute. The group reported last month that despite spending at about $40 billion a year now and toughening drug sentencing laws, "America continues to experience the Western world’s worst drug problems." An epidemic of heroin use more than three decades ago, followed by a 1980s epidemic of cocaine and crack, prompted a massive intensification in drug enforcement while giving short shrift to prevention and treatment, the institute reported. It decried budgeting that spends two-thirds of drug control funds on enforcement, 25 percent on treatment and just 12 percent on prevention.

Response:

Do you support or advocate, morally or ethically

admin — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist party?

Response:

"Greegor" wrote in message

news:1111626703.857337.280900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com… > Kane:

<<>> > It’s YOUR WORLD and everybody else just > lives in it, right? : )

Actually, Greg, it’s MY world. Please leave NOW!!!

Response:

Greegor wrote: > Kane: > Miraculously these imaginary e-mails you receive > and ceremoniously call "back channel" all had the > same delusion you did about threats being made?

Oh? They aren’t imaginary. Perfectly nice people leave because of the shit you folks spread that I’m not willing to just let you get away with. They tire of our "banter." But their leaving isn’t sufficient motivation for me to just let you shit babble. > Are you sending e-mails to yourself again?

Never have…oh wait. Wrong. When I’ve have more than one e-mail account I send a test post, and I’ve been known to use my e-mail accounts as a kind of note taker, a reminder service to myself. Recently I sent myself an E-mail. It said, "Kane, ease up on the feebleboy. He is looking pretty stressed." See how nice I am. > Hey! Doctor Strangelove had a midnight > showing here in one of our theatres last > weekend!

Taking notes, were yah? > It must be recirculating in theatres!

Or you run the film in your head. > Get ready with your jars of "bodily fluids"!

You want MY bodily fluids? I don’t think so. > You disparage everybody who you disagree > with or more importantly,

Funny. I’ve had a number of folks I disagree with right here in this ng right in front of you. Dan’s one. And Dan’s disagreed with me. Witchy. chickeyd. Or do you think that disagreeing amounts to disparaging? You have a strange notion of the English language. > anybody who > disagrees with YOU!

Naw. I don’t disparage a whole lot of people that disagree with me. I haven’t got time for them all. How you doin’ on g’parents of the little girl and the love you got for them in your heart? The caseworkers? Oh, damn near forgot, sorry. Dan? > This is pretty much > standard behavior for CULT LEADERS.

Don’t tell me you think Doug is a cult leader. I’d NEVER think up such a creative name, even if it fit. You -are- talented > Solopcism? (SP?)

Do you mean "solipsism?" from the philosophical theory that the self is the only thing that can be known and verified. Or that the self is the only reality? Funny you should use such and apropo term that would apply so well to you. > It’s YOUR WORLD and everybody else just > lives in it, right? : )

Do you feel I leave you out? I’m sorry. I’ll try harder to make you feel as though you are real to me. You are, you know. Or I would’t bother with you, and I wouldn’t take your implied threats, and your failure to answer such a simple question very seriously. I do take them seriously. The language in this ng for a couple of years was the language we see recalled when folks are interviewed about perps just AFTER the murder. No, not name calling. That’s a nice steam relief valve for some. It’s the vivid descriptions of killing and how to kill and why to kill that convince me that we have, or had, some serious nutcases here. It seemed downright obsessive to me at the time. Then it came up again recently, and rather than let folks go off again, with their "workers deserve to die" bullshit, I thought I’d save your asses and ask a question that you could eitehr answer honestly if you do NOT advocate or support killing state agents, or lie about if you do but need to cover your butts. I can’t help but wonder if we have any left. Nutcases that is. I KNOW we have "butts" here. I’m posting to one right now. Frankly, 0:->, I’m nervous about you claiming so vehemently that I’m a case worker named Don Fisher, and doing it in a newsgroup where discussions of wanting to kill or threats of death to caseworkers run the gamut from insinuation and vague associations with ideas of waving guns in people’s faces, up to and including explicit urgings and threats to kill caseworkers. And greegor, not once did Dan or a lot of others in this ng do any of that. But greegor, there was a group that did. And I can’t help but remember what good terms you were on with them. Even admiring in some instances. Am I wrong about that? Did you not admire them? I suppose I could be wrong. Shall we go googling and find out? Or do you wish to rape the english language yet again and claim my questions are "lies?" By the way, lest you forget. Which you have in your desperation to find something to block out my question with. I expressed really strong feelings about wishing you would off yourself, or someone would casterate you? Did that make YOU feel nervous at all? Care to ask me if I morally or ethically support or advocate that someone castrate you or supply you with rope? I’ll happily answer in the affirmative. The moral and ethical argument lies in your Motion, your own story of your history with Lisa and her daughter. Basically it goes like this: It’s not nice to move in on a little girl and displace her from her mother then refuse to do those things that would her back home. See, there IS a moral position to be taken. The one of your "not niceness." Yer a twit. We don’t like twits that hurt little girls. Want to argue my moral and ethical position on this matter? Whoa..wait, I’ve been inviting you to do that for 2 years plus now. What made me think you’d be willing to do it NOW when you’ve done nothing but dodge for those years. Tsk on me, tsk. Kane

Response:

Kane: Miraculously these imaginary e-mails you receive and ceremoniously call "back channel" all had the same delusion you did about threats being made? Are you sending e-mails to yourself again? Hey! Doctor Strangelove had a midnight showing here in one of our theatres last weekend! It must be recirculating in theatres! Get ready with your jars of "bodily fluids"! You disparage everybody who you disagree with or more importantly, anybody who disagrees with YOU! This is pretty much standard behavior for CULT LEADERS. Solopcism? (SP?) It’s YOUR WORLD and everybody else just lives in it, right? : )

Response:

It’s been brought to my attention by you, Gregory Hanson, that my question is too complex or too full of choices that seem ambiguous or otherwise too complicated. You asked why the choices of "advocate," or "support," and "morally," or "ethically." I presume you find nothing as difficult for you to understand or deal with in "lethal force," and "state custody." So in my usual spirit of fairness and cooperation when you make a request, or ask a question, I’ll continue to point out that you can answer in any way you see fit, any portion, or all portions, either in a collectively composed way using all of the combinations, or you by taking any of the combinations you wish. Here is the possibilities list: 1. Gregory Hanson, do you support, morally or ethically, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state? 2. Gregory Hanson, do you advocate, morally or ethically, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state? 3. Gregory Hanson, do you support, morally, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state? 4. Gregory Hanson, do you advocate, morally, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state? 5. Gregory Hanson, do you support or advocate, morally, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state? 6. Gregory Hanson, do you support or advocate, ethically, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state? 7. Gregory Hanson, do you support or advocate, morally or ethically, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state? I believe I got them all, but if you see combinations I missed that you’d rather address, please feel free. Remember, I am interested in either your moral position, or your ethical position and either your advocacy, or your support, for or against the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state custody. And we established in a prior post that of course, according to the law, the custory would be legal. Not "judicial" though that of course is a subset of "legal," but simply in compliance with state and federal laws on custody of children. I include "federal" because if an alledged causal act for custody taking happens on federal lands, then federal law prevails. What you have accomplished, of course, by your dodging rather than answering, is the appearance of more complexity to the question than need be, but you seem reluctant to, as I invited, create a simple enough format of your own for this question, so I’ thought I’d offer some templates for you to chose from. Any one question from the list will serve to answer what I am interested in exploring with you. It’s all in the spirity of lively debate, and uncovering the truth, regardless of Doug’s attempt to dodge it himself by claiming it’s an idiotic question to ask if someone is inclined to support death threats, in the form of using lethal force. Call me crazy, but I do not consider death threats anything but serious. And so do others, rather a lot of them in fact. Naturally that takes them out of the realm of the idiotic. Oh, and those that make such threats, and those that do not challenge those that make such threats, are complicit in making this newsgroup and extremely frightening place for families that came here for help, and have more than enough trouble with the government, and do not need to get advice from, or even post in reply to, those that make threats, and or do not admonish others that do. Clue. (I’ve had backchanneled posts from lurkers, never posting in the ng, that have said they will NOT participate with assholes like you and your little pack of viscious dangerous fools meandering about….immorally making or allowing such threats. Yah think they want the state they are dealing with to see them in a group with you jackoffs?) So if you want to make sure no family coming here gets direct help in this ng, just keep it up, and keep refusing to answer the simple question I ask. Thanks for your attention. Kane

Response:

Greegor wrote: > Do you (verb)A or B for reasons (adverb)C or D > use of lethal force by parents to take their > children from state custody > (no clarification of legal status)?

No. And I did not limit YOUR doing so if you wished. I asked you to answer in any way you wished, did I not? With your reasons as well, if you wished? What’s holding you up? You seem to want to continually ask the same questions over and over again about the question. Keep some notes this time. > The question has two OR propositions and > ignores whether custody was done with > court authority or not.

It does not enter into that. If a worker came sans the authority of the state the answer would be open to very different interpretations and reactionsm, morally and ethically. I referred, repeatedly and clearly to "state custody." As far as I know from all the discussions on this subject of custody in this ng it has never been a question of the state being not in legal custody of the child. I have seen the legality challenged. I have never seen the legality of THIS situation, simply having the child in state custody, questioned. > In many cases, agencies have taken physical > custody and control of children WITHOUT any > court authorization.

In many cases that is true. In ALL cases, as far as I know, they act within the laws of the state. If they do NOT, then folks such as Dan got’em by the short hairs. You are free to argue that their NOT having court authorization gives a moral or ethical support to the idea of the use of lethal force. I’d just like to see you cite some cases, argue with some logic, even become as empassioned as you wish. I’ve created, with this question, a prefect platform, a soapbox, for someone such as you, greegor. Suddenly you are shy. > Certainly, any such ADVOCACY would be evident > on the internet, if there was any.

Are you saying that given your claim that the state takes the child without court authorization that allow for the use of lethal force to take the child back? What of the law that is codified in policy in CPS, for instance? What of the police officer, with no court order whatsoever, in the moment of exigent circumstances, discovers a child HE or SHE believes requires the protection of the state and removes that child for further investigation? There was not court order, but I would venture there WAS law giving that authorization. > Why would you ask, when a search of the net > would reveal NO SUCH ADVOCACY?

Because I already know all that. I don’t need to search. My question is simple and you are free to bring in everything you wish to defend your position on the use of lethal force, but asking me to change my question isn’t acceptable. It’s still the same. You may say, ‘under the conditions of thus an so I believe that….’ or however YOU wish to phrase it. But do not hand the question back to me. Build your own scenario. I asked my question. I’m not changing it. Got that? > The deliberately OBTUSE question

No, it was a deliberately plain, simple, uncomplicated question. It leaves nearly every condition and nuance up to the one who is asked and answers. You can defend you position with just about anything you wish. I can debate you on your defenses and your position, of course. > was asked ONLY > as a smokescreen, after Kane got caught LYING,

I and one other that I recall, have asked you to post my lie. You posted my statements, and I pointed out that I had asked questions. Questions, by default, do not qualify as lies or lying. They are simply questions. I asked you what you meant in your post to the ex cop…and I told you how it appeared to me. I asked if I was correct, and invited you to show me how your statement did NOT defend the right to use lethal force, since you were arguing the cop had the right or at least did it. You have not answered my question relating to that, nor any other. > asserting basically what the question asks completely > without any factual basis.

That is a nonsense statement. There was the post. I have given you other posts with questionable expressions by you about the safety of government agents, caseworkers, one of which you seemed to express a desire for a house to drop on. And you mocked the cop when he spoke against people waving guns in others faces to force them to comply…in reference to the Christines. > Kane’s refusal to break the question down into > constituent parts seems to imply his dishonesty.

YOU, are free to break it down anyway you wish. But you know I’ll continue to ask about the essentials. I want to see either a denial that you would support or advocate, (and if you wish, reference to the moral and ethical principles you would make that denial of the use upon) or a support for the use of lethal force, and reference to moral or ethical principles upon which you would base that position. > Like the worst stereotype of a mindless zombie > caseworker or a cult zombie, Kane > refuses to make the question clear and fair, > yet repeats it obsessively over several months, > in NUMEROUS unrelated message threads.

I have not made it the question you WANT me to ask you. I ask MY question, not yours. However, if YOU would like to pose this same basic question in YOUR terms, be my guest. In fact I insist. Go ahead. Pose the question so that it addresses ethics and morals, sticks to what someone might do or not do by those standards, including the use of lethal force of course, parents, of course, and state custody of the child, of course. And of course, taking that child or children by the use of lethal force. Your question would be? > The obsessive repetitious nature of this OBTUSE > question rises to the level of harassment,

You seem to be quite comfortable with Doug’s long history of repetition on issues related to CPS and it’s practices. I ask the same question not because I can’t change how I ask it, but because you don’t answer. I will continue to. You may call it what you wish. I see it as seeking the truth in matters of great importance. Safety for parents, (they could end up like Brian and Christine…or worse, dead), state agents like workers and foster parents (remember the methheads that also were part of motivating the question?), and most important of ALL, the children, who, in both instances, where present with the waving about and pointing of guns and threatening with them. The children were in the state van when Brian pointed the gun AT the person in the state van. That is highly dangerous behavior. Dangerous even for the children. Unless he was a practiced shooter with handguns he cannot know just how far afield a shot from a handgun can go. I have seen cop car videos of a thug and a cop exchanging rapid fire from no more than ten feet from each other….a massive number of rounds from a semi auto in one case, where every single round MISSED the target, cop OR perp, and those shoots luckily had no one behind either person. There were kids behind the state worker. What if he or she had struggled for the gun? People do, you know. The assumption is that you are going to die. I trust the worker decided the child’s safety was more important than their own life. Brian didn’t think so, apparently. Why don’t you write and ask him how he feels about having pointed a gun in the direction of his own children. Now that he’s had time to think about it? > and it > also brings up the question of Kane’s mental hygiene.

Okay. Ask away. As a former mental health worker I can assure you I pay attention myself, and my family members and I have agreed upon proceedures should any of us show signs of losing our mental capacity. (It’s what happens with people in mental health work..they know how to take care of business…and I’m not the only one in my family). > Considering that Kane is an anonymous poster, > telling such lies about a person who is NOT anonymous, > that adds another dimension to the situation.

Is that why Furneal left us? DestroyCPS? SueCPS Bob? Can we expect bobber the swift, to enjoy HIS "another dimension" to his situations? > The more recent false assertions by Kane that > I have publicly threatened him

I believe you have by claiming I am a caseworker and in this newsgroup, and you know it, caseworkers have been threatened with death, and their actual deaths have been not only minimized, but in fact pointed out as appropriate for the agenda’s of those making that claim. > and had something to do > with a list or a class of people publicly "marked for death"

Were caseworkers not so "marked for death" in this ng? Are you that short of memory? Would you like me to cite and quote the threats and comments? > is also without any basis, and certainly brings up > questions about Kane’s mental health.

Greegor, you know perfectly well there was a long and explict series of posts that did in fact claim caseworkers SHOULD be shot or killed. You claim I’m a caseworker. Do you get the logical connection? Or are you now prepared to claim that while you claim I am a caseworker, I have special dispensation and should not be subject to the threats made by others to kill caseworkers, and you will protect me? > Perhaps some authorities need to investigate Kane’s > mental health before Kane’s obsessions and > false perceptions hurt somebody.

Which obsessions? Clarifying the threats of death to caseworkers in this ng? Asking you if you approve or disapprove of death threats (lethal force) against (parents making them with gun in hand, or machete, or knife, or bludgeon…all of which have figured in worker deaths) workers or other state agents, such as foster parents? Those "obsessions?" Next you’ll be claiming that because YOU publically claimed I’m a caseworker (not true), and caseworkers have been killed for being caseworkers doing their jobs, and posters to this newsgroup claimed that was a good thing to do, that I’m paranoid. Please. Go ahead. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rather than reigning in Kane, his good buddy Dan has

Response:

Gregory Hanson, do you support or advocate, morally or ethically, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state custody?

Response:

Do you (verb)A or B for reasons (adverb)C or D use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state custody (no clarification of legal status)? The question has two OR propositions and ignores whether custody was done with court authority or not. In many cases, agencies have taken physical custody and control of children WITHOUT any court authorization. Certainly, any such ADVOCACY would be evident on the internet, if there was any. Why would you ask, when a search of the net would reveal NO SUCH ADVOCACY? The deliberately OBTUSE question was asked ONLY as a smokescreen, after Kane got caught LYING, asserting basically what the question asks completely without any factual basis. Kane’s refusal to break the question down into constituent parts seems to imply his dishonesty. Like the worst stereotype of a mindless zombie caseworker or a cult zombie, Kane refuses to make the question clear and fair, yet repeats it obsessively over several months, in NUMEROUS unrelated message threads. The obsessive repetitious nature of this OBTUSE question rises to the level of harassment, and it also brings up the question of Kane’s mental hygiene. Considering that Kane is an anonymous poster, telling such lies about a person who is NOT anonymous, that adds another dimension to the situation. The more recent false assertions by Kane that I have publicly threatened him and had something to do with a list or a class of people publicly "marked for death" is also without any basis, and certainly brings up questions about Kane’s mental health. Perhaps some authorities need to investigate Kane’s mental health before Kane’s obsessions and false perceptions hurt somebody. Rather than reigning in Kane, his good buddy Dan has actually posted messages making him COMPLICIT to these behaviors. Kane wrote kane_poh…@yahoo.com Newsgroups: alt.support.child-protective-services, alt.parenting.spanking, alt.support.foster-parents Mon, Mar 21 2005 12:19 pm Subject: Do you support or advocate, morally or ethically Gregory Hanson, do you support or advocate, morally or ethically, the use of lethal force by parents to take their children from state custody? Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse REPORT ABUSE?

Response:

NEWS – MA – Newborn given up at hospital

admin — Mon, 07 Mar 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

MASSACHUSETTS http://www.eagletribune.com/ Monday, March 7, 2005 Newborn given up at hospital From staff and wire reports

A newborn girl was abandoned at a local hospital over the weekend in what officials are calling the first successful test of the safe haven law enacted last fall. The healthy infant was turned in by a parent at an unspecified hospital in the Merrimack Valley, Department of Social Services spokeswoman Denise Monteiro said. The baby was later discharged from the hospital and placed in a foster home. Monteiro said no other information would be released because of privacy concerns. But she said the baby was the first surrendered since Oct. 29, when Massachusetts became the 47th state to allow parents to leave unwanted newborns at certain locations, such as hospitals, without legal ramifications. "I think because of the safe haven act no one panicked, which is what happens in an abandonment situation," Monteiro said. "The child was brought to safety." State Rep. Barry Finegold, D-Andover, was one of the authors of the bill and called this weekend’s incident a "major success." He said he did not know which hospital in the Merrimack Valley was the site of the drop-off. "I’ve always said that if we can save just one baby, then it will be worth it," Finegold said. Finegold explained when parents turn babies in, they are allowed to do it completely anonymously if the baby is not injured. Hospital workers will ask a series of questions about the baby’s prenatal care and the woman’s family medical history, but the woman is not obligated to answer. In addition to hospitals, police departments and staffed fire stations are also designated as safe havens. The law only applies to infants who are less than 7 days old. The bill was proposed in response to tragedies involving frightened parents who have left children in secluded spots to die rather than risk punishment by delivering them to the authorities. Staff writer Davin Wilfrid contributed to this report.

Response:

MASSACHUSETTS http://www.eagletribune.com/ Monday, March 7, 2005 Newborn given up at hospital From staff and wire reports A newborn girl was abandoned at a local hospital over the weekend in what officials are calling the first successful test of the safe haven law enacted last fall. The healthy infant was turned in by a parent

Seriously, how does anyone know that it was a parent that delivered the child? J.

Response:

Lawmaker Wants Probe After CPS Employees Fail Background Checks

admin — Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

One of the problems with this will be the loss of so many black male employees. Black men are often profiled and cited and hassled into reactions so they can be cited at a massive rate over white people. It will be interesting to see how this washes out. I wonder what other areas of human services will be given the same mandate. A great many very good people have some criminal problems in their background. Kane

Response:

Kane wrote: > One of the problems with this will be the loss of so many black male > employees.

That’s an incredibly racist comment, Kane. MADD themselves state that white high school kids have a higher rate of driving under the influence than any other race (12.9% of whites, 9.1% of blacks), and that that the rate of "alcohol involvement" of drivers is statistically equal among adult white and blacks. www.madd.org > Black men are often profiled and cited and hassled into reactions so > they can be cited at a massive rate over white people.

The story makes no mention of the race of the folks that have arrests – what makes you make this jump? > It will be interesting to see how this washes out. I wonder what other > areas of human services will be given the same mandate. > A great many very good people have some criminal problems in their > background. > Kane

chickeyd

Response:

chickeyd wrote: > Kane wrote: > > One of the problems with this will be the loss of so many black male > > employees. > That’s an incredibly racist comment, Kane.

No, it would be if it were a lie. It is not. Black males are more often targetted for stops, arrests, than whites are for the same offenses. I’m curious how you find this "racist?" Do you think I’m accusing blacks of being more criminal than whites? I am pointing out they are unfairly profiled. You ever been stopped for being white in the wrong neighborhood? I never have. I have black friends, professional people, that have been stopped for things like DWB (Driving While Black) repeatedly. To nice a car, to white a neighborhood. An attorney aquaintence of mine that holds a high public appointed job in state service, and inherited a great deal of money and can afford to live like a prince, has about one a year of these DWBs since his mid 20’s. He’s a 45 year old man now. And it still goes on. He is very "black" looking, and he’s married to a white women, herself an attorney. He’s been put over the hood of his car just about every stop. He tends, since he’s an attorney, to ask the officers for their authority to make the stop. It seems to piss them off, somehow. Imagine if this family can’t put a stop to it how prevalent this practice is. I lived in da ‘hood. I know what is what on this issue. > MADD themselves state that > white high school kids have a higher rate of driving under the > influence than any other race (12.9% of whites, 9.1% of blacks), and > that that the rate of "alcohol involvement" of drivers is statistically > equal among adult white and blacks.

I’m not arguing the facts you cite. This isn’t the only criminal charge involved. Black males get charged a lot for "resisting an officer." Viewing a few videos of stops of black men and how things proceed would make it clear the officers pushed the pain levels before the reaction. I’ve been stopped by cops plenty. They rarely even touched me, and then most carefully. I am white. Ever see the video a black cop, in plain clothes, made of himself getting hassled by white cops. As I recall they managed to bust a plate glass window using his body. He did nothing more than ask the same questions I have asked, and I got polite answers and no bodily contact from the officers. Even Jesse Jackson has admitted, shamefully, that he’s found himself, when hearing footsteps behind him on a dark street, to being "relieved" that when he looked it was white people behind him. That’s how prevalent racism is…even blacks are victims of suspecting other blacks without proper warrant to do so. > www.madd.org > > Black men are often profiled and cited and hassled into reactions so > > they can be cited at a massive rate over white people. > The story makes no mention of the race of the folks that have arrests – > what makes you make this jump?

Because of the loss of talented and dedicated people that would ensue if the criteria is used that past "arrests and convictions" are used. I don’t doubt, for instance, that white youths have the same incidence (and even higher) of driving and alcohol involvement. What I believe (by my experience in both communities) is that black youths will get busted for it, while white youth will be more often let off with a "warning." Yah have to remember, I was a white male youth at one time. No special connections, but I got away with things my brothers of color did not. That includes other than blacks. Indians, hispanics. I’ve watched cops, when I was a kid, haul them away and leave me behind and I was part of the party. It’s just too common to ignore. In other words, blacks will have more "crime" in their background for no other reason than they are black, and I would assume there is a high number of black people employeed in DHS in Florida. What I find amusing or interesting or the same usual crappola, about this particular article is the careful avoidance of job description. Some people that are employeed by CPS are in non client critical positions. They don’t directly interact with clients. I don’t think that was sufficiently sorted out here, and the reader is left to assume it’s all caseworkers. All the article says, allowing the reader to assume all are casecarrying is that "employees" were failing background checks. None casecarrying employees of CPS in my area outnumber caseworkers. There are various kinds of clerical duties that have no client contact. There are those that work exclusively with foster parents. Those that run printing and mailroom functions at all levels, from branch office to central state office. An article that pinpointed caseworkers with criminal backgrounds would have been a very good use of the media. Why didn’t they do so? I suspect because the number was so insignificant. > > It will be interesting to see how this washes out. I wonder what > other > > areas of human services will be given the same mandate. > > A great many very good people have some criminal problems in their > > background. > > Kane > chickeyd

Kane

Response:

Kane writes: > What I find amusing or interesting or the same usual crappola, about > this particular article is the careful avoidance of job description. > All the article says, allowing the reader to assume all are > casecarrying is that "employees" were failing background checks. None > casecarrying employees of CPS in my area outnumber caseworkers. There > are various kinds of clerical duties that have no client contact. > An article that pinpointed caseworkers with criminal backgrounds would > have been a very good use of the media. Why didn’t they do so? I > suspect because the number was so insignificant.

Hi, Kane, This article seems to be a good use of the media then, since a good many of those 37 CPS workers were involved with clients. We don’t know exactly how many were caseworkers, but we know that 21 of them were case managers. And all of those with criminal records were placed in positions that did not involve client contact…which leads one to understand they were removed from positions that did. "All employees denied clearance were immediately assigned to duties that do not involve client contact, and 14 with past DUI arrests could be let go if they fail to find positions in CPS that do not require driving," the article says. So, at least in this particular episode of fact, the mean old media is not out to "get" the nice little CPS people. Doug

Response:

Opps, in my prior response I think I used the state of "Florida" rather than Arizona. My bad. Kane

Response:

Lawmaker Wants Probe After CPS Employees Fail Background Checks By Phil Riske A state senator has called for an investigation regarding a number of Child Protective Services employees whose background checks revealed criminal offenses.

OH- New law helps adults, infants – Baby Safe Haven

admin — Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I wonder what is going to happen when easy, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anonymous abandonment becomes ingrained in our culture. When the already overwhelmed foster care system becomes further strained with the influx of children who may have been able to remain with their families if only the overwhelmed parents had received some help. Instead of choosing the readily available ‘easy’ alternative offered by SH proponents, people who place their children in foster care due to being unable to cope, have a structured system in place where there is some hope that they might receive the help they need and keep the family together. It isn’t a perfect system by any means but it is a damn sight better than SHs. What happens too when the demand for adoptable children eases (perhaps due to new, easily affordable advances in infertility). Will we again see orphanages?

It could even ease for simple demographic reasons — baby-boomers getting past the age where they want to raise kids. Then the question would be, what about the supply side? There, better education about, and access to, contraceptives would help reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. It’s an interesting paradox: America seems to be a society where sexuality is considered extremely salient, and a hugely important part of life. It’s hardly surprising that most people do not consider marriage as a boundary between sex and no-sex, more like a boundary between sex-with-many-sequentially-or-in-parallel, and sex-with-one. Couple this with sex ed that’s patchy for students, and it’s no surprise you end up with unwanted pregnancies in a certain percentage of the population. However, I wonder how many of these lead to relinquishment? (Or SHing). If supply does outstrip demand, I think we may see more foster care, and "Group Homes." This is an issue that bears thinking about, IMO, quite independent of SHs. The question for the US (or I suppose, each state) becomes, How far should we go to protect the childhoods of our future citizens, and how best is that done? Rupa

Response:

OHIO http://www.timesleaderonline.com/news/story/0219202005_new02_infants.asp New law helps adults, infants By LINDA L. HULL, Times Leader Staff Writer – Saturday, February 19, 2005 NOT ALL abandoned babies are born to unwed teenage girls who can’t take care of them. Some babies are born to adult women of all ages who for what ever reason feel they can’t take care of the infant. Recently, a 38-year-old woman in Florida gave birth to an unwanted child but the woman was not truthful to the law enforcement officials, allegedly lying to them about how she was in possession of an infant. This woman may get into trouble, not for turning over the baby, but instead for lying and making a false report. Florida law, like Ohio, states that if an infant is brought to the proper authorities – a hospital, police officer, school officer or EMS personnel – the adult can leave the child within the first 72 hours of birth without any questions being asked or anyone getting into trouble. Elizabeth Brunner, director of The Birth Place at East Ohio Regional Hospital knows all too well what can happen to a child that is abandoned. But when the "Newborn Safe Haven Law" came into effect, things seemed to get a little better for not only women who can’t take care of a child, but also for the infant. Brunner said, "If a mom will just bring her baby in. If she can’t take care of her baby, even if the child is older, hand the child over in the emergency room and we’ll get help. Here at East Ohio Regional Hospital we’ll even take the older kids just so they won’t be abused or worse." She also stated, "The purpose of the law is to protect the child, so we have to protect the mom." Brunner said, "A couple of years ago we had an abandoned baby that was left in our parking lot. The mother, father or caretaker were never found but the baby was brought to our front desk and it was cared for safely." Brunner said she feels that possibly the mother and baby came from West Virginia where the law hasn’t been passed yet. She said, "That’s okay though, anyone can bring their babies here. We just want the baby to be safe." Brunner wanted to stress that the mothers of those children do not have to worry about being arrested or their names being publicized. They are completely anonymous if they bring the child in during their first 72 hours of life, according to the law. Brunner added that since it is hard to determine the age of an infant, the way the hospital determines the cutoff age is whether or not the umbilical cord is still attached. Since it can take anywhere from a few days to two weeks or more to lose the cord, a desperate woman has a certain amount of leeway. She said, "This gives the woman some more time to bring the child in. We would also like for the mother to be checked out by us for any physical problems due to the unusual and possibly unsafe birth. She doesn’t have to, but it would be nice if she did, and of course her name would never be publicized and she won’t get into any trouble. She doesn’t even have to tell us her name or answer any questions." Brunner also noted that a person doesn’t have to drop the child off at a hospital, it can be given to any law enforcement personnel or a school officer and they will not be charged with any crime. The baby will just be listed as "Baby Doe". While Brunner is happy that the law in Ohio gives a mother a 72 hour window, she said, "I wish that we could get it extended to cover any child." She added, "If the law was extended, anyone could bring in any child that was not wanted or in danger of being abused or worse without being charged with a crime. They still can bring them to EORH though." Brunner would like to see the law changed so she has asked that everyone write to their legislature and state representatives to ask that every unwanted child be allowed to be turned over to authorities safely without the caretakers being afraid of retribution.

Response:

Brunner would like to see the law changed so she has asked that everyone write to their legislature and state representatives to ask that every unwanted child be allowed to be turned over to authorities safely without the caretakers being afraid of retribution.

They already can. That’s different from what she is talking about though – *anonymous* abandonment. I wonder what is going to happen when easy, anonymous abandonment becomes ingrained in our culture. When the already overwhelmed foster care system becomes further strained with the influx of children who may have been able to remain with their families if only the overwhelmed parents had received some help. Instead of choosing the readily available ‘easy’ alternative offered by SH proponents, people who place their children in foster care due to being unable to cope, have a structured system in place where there is some hope that they might receive the help they need and keep the family together. It isn’t a perfect system by any means but it is a damn sight better than SHs. What happens too when the demand for adoptable children eases (perhaps due to new, easily affordable advances in infertility). Will we again see orphanages? Kathy 1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Ten Years Ago (Feb 13, 1995)

admin — Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bravo, Dad. I hope your son loves it as much as I did. Makes you wonder if our words will still be floating somewhere in cyber space when comes the time our little ones will be grown and surfing themselves. And if they are, what they will think when they read the words of their aging parents? Will they dismiss those heartfelt exclaimations as parental drivel? (sort of depends I suppose at what age they read them.) Our adoptions were such a life changing experiences (speaking for all of us apars who continue to hang around). None of us are the same people we were all those years ago when we stumbled about trying to learn how to do the right thing, sort through all of our own emotions, growing a child "in our hearts" when the old fashioned way didn’t deliver. I myself am deeply moved and changed by literally the hundreds of posts and threads I’ve read, been a part, the target of. As I add up the years I have been part of the ng for a decade. Ten years. Wow… For Linda, Dr. Steve, Dad, Julia in Oz, all of us old timers…these anniversaries are special indeed. For the new apars, hang around. Share you stories, yourselves. I may not comment on everything, but I surely do read most posts. Now all we need is Don to jump in, call us all a pack of sentimental arsewipes or Marley to wonder what the fascination is with wanting to raise a sprog to bring this thread back down to earth…:)

Yep, the anniversaries are indeed special. To Dad: I had missed your original post but now see it reflected in the (many) comments. Your son is a lucky guy, and so are you. So are we all. steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bravo, Dad. I hope your son loves it as much as I did. Makes you wonder if our words will still be floating somewhere in cyber space when comes the time our little ones will be grown and surfing themselves. And if they are, what they will think when they read the words of their aging parents? Will they dismiss those heartfelt exclaimations as parental drivel? (sort of depends I suppose at what age they read them.) Our adoptions were such a life changing experiences (speaking for all of us apars who continue to hang around). None of us are the same people we were all those years ago when we stumbled about trying to learn how to do the right thing, sort through all of our own emotions, growing a child "in our hearts" when the old fashioned way didn’t deliver. I myself am deeply moved and changed by literally the hundreds of posts and threads I’ve read, been a part, the target of. As I add up the years I have been part of the ng for a decade. Ten years. Wow… For Linda, Dr. Steve, Dad, Julia in Oz, all of us old timers…these anniversaries are special indeed. For the new apars, hang around. Share you stories, yourselves. I may not comment on everything, but I surely do read most posts. Same here Ducks. I read a couple of times a day though I post far less often. We’re fast approaching the 10th anniversary of bringing our boys home from India. I’ve already warned them that I’m likely to get soppy and write something for them. Julia

We’re coming up on the 12th anniversary of our son’s arrival in the U.S., February 26. You folks keep this up and my son will be spending the day reading about every one of those years together. ;-} J.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bravo, Dad. I hope your son loves it as much as I did. Makes you wonder if our words will still be floating somewhere in cyber space when comes the time our little ones will be grown and surfing themselves. And if they are, what they will think when they read the words of their aging parents? Will they dismiss those heartfelt exclaimations as parental drivel? (sort of depends I suppose at what age they read them.) Our adoptions were such a life changing experiences (speaking for all of us apars who continue to hang around). None of us are the same people we were all those years ago when we stumbled about trying to learn how to do the right thing, sort through all of our own emotions, growing a child "in our hearts" when the old fashioned way didn’t deliver. I myself am deeply moved and changed by literally the hundreds of posts and threads I’ve read, been a part, the target of. As I add up the years I have been part of the ng for a decade. Ten years. Wow… For Linda, Dr. Steve, Dad, Julia in Oz, all of us old timers…these anniversaries are special indeed. For the new apars, hang around. Share you stories, yourselves. I may not comment on everything, but I surely do read most posts. Same here Ducks. I read a couple of times a day though I post far less often. We’re fast approaching the 10th anniversary of bringing our boys home from India. I’ve already warned them that I’m likely to get soppy and write something for them. Julia We’re coming up on the 12th anniversary of our son’s arrival in the U.S., February 26. You folks keep this up and my son will be spending the day reading about every one of those years together. ;-} J.

You go right ahead on and have your say. Good news spreads like wildfire around here and is a welcome change from the less happy tales. ducks

Response:

But I will always be proud to be your forever dad.

Hey, Dad…sorry this is so late but……. Happy Forever Dad Day!! Gary

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OK, I admit it I don’t understand the attraction, but enough people suffer from it, so there must be something to it. Happy Anniversary! Marley

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<<< OK, I admit it I don’t understand the attraction, but enough people suffer from it, so there must be something to it. Happy Anniversary! Marley Why do I feel as if the Grinch just wished me Merry Christmas. ;) Thanks, Marley, Steve, Gary, et al. Dad

Response:

Same here Ducks. I read a couple of times a day though I post far less often. We’re fast approaching the 10th anniversary of bringing our boys home from India. I’ve already warned them that I’m likely to get soppy and write something for them. Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now all we need is Don to jump in, call us all a pack of sentimental arsewipes or Marley to wonder what the fascination is with wanting to raise a sprog to bring this thread back down to earth…:) fondly to all, ducks

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Dad, that was beautiful. I am teary now. I’m reading through this newsgroup, catching up on things and wondering where the time went. My little girl turns 17 on Tuesday…and it was her birth that prompted me to search and find my birth family. Two months later, reunited with my kin…I began to do adoption searches myself…and thus began the Missing Peace chapter of my life. It is hard to believe that was 17 years ago! As all of us grow older, our children are growing up…. Just think everyone…Celesta’s kids are probably locking her in her room now!!! LOL! They have to be about 19 and 21 now… How strange is that! Time flies… deer the old fart

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OK, I admit it I don’t understand the attraction, but enough people suffer from it, so there must be something to it. Happy Anniversary! Marley

And they said you had a heart of stone…:) fondly, ducks

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<<< Yes, he is now, 15? Old enough to speak for himself for sure. Does he know his dad is such a sucker for a sweet story? He couldn’t care less - he’s too busy being fifteen to give a rat’s arse. Sometimes I think I write this stuff for my own benefit. With teenagers, it helps to remind yourself of the good ol’ days and why you once volunteered for this job. Life is good. Dad

Response:

My son didn’t really have much to say. He’s 15 now and doesn’t go in for all that sappy stuff - you should have read the one my wife gave him. Anyway, we’re very proud of him. Thanks to all of you for the kind words. 10 years was yesterday… where does all that time go? Dad

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How absolutely sweet. Sniff… ducks

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Time? The older you get the faster it flies! As usual Dad, when you write about your children, your deep love for them illuminates every word – and gives me goosebumps on goosebumps. Helen

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What a wonderful post. Thanks, Dad. Linda

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Bravo, Dad. I hope your son loves it as much as I did.

Makes you wonder if our words will still be floating somewhere in cyber space when comes the time our little ones will be grown and surfing themselves. And if they are, what they will think when they read the words of their aging parents? Will they dismiss those heartfelt exclaimations as parental drivel? (sort of depends I suppose at what age they read them.) Our adoptions were such a life changing experiences (speaking for all of us apars who continue to hang around). None of us are the same people we were all those years ago when we stumbled about trying to learn how to do the right thing, sort through all of our own emotions, growing a child "in our hearts" when the old fashioned way didn’t deliver. I myself am deeply moved and changed by literally the hundreds of posts and threads I’ve read, been a part, the target of. As I add up the years I have been part of the ng for a decade. Ten years. Wow… For Linda, Dr. Steve, Dad, Julia in Oz, all of us old timers…these anniversaries are special indeed. For the new apars, hang around. Share you stories, yourselves. I may not comment on everything, but I surely do read most posts. Now all we need is Don to jump in, call us all a pack of sentimental arsewipes or Marley to wonder what the fascination is with wanting to raise a sprog to bring this thread back down to earth…:) fondly to all, ducks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ten years ago today, I became a dad. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was sitting in the waiting room of the county office of Children and Youth – my life was about to change forever. I would have a son. The social services caseworker brought you around the corner and there you were – my boy! A watershed moment never to be forgotten. You were so small for a five year old boy, hair unkempt, huge toothy smile, wearing a worn out San Francisco 49ers jacket… too cute for words. We only had a few hours together that first day. We went to Chuck E. Cheese for lunch, then dropped by the mall to get a Valentine’s rose for your foster mother. I remember lifting you up to ride on my shoulders, just like my own father did long ago. You hung on for dear life, not used to having a dad carry you that way. Your little hands were planted firmly over my eyes, completely blocking my vision. I doubt that you were as scared as I was. The day would have been perfect had we been able to take you with us, but it was more than six weeks until your mother and I brought you home for good. In the interim, we had many day visits and a few overnight weekends, but each time we had to return you to your foster home. It was the longest six weeks of my life - you were more than worth the wait. Four weeks later on the morning we were to leave for Disney World, we couldn’t find you anywhere. We called your name, looked all over the house, checked the swingset and backyard shed – nothing. Your mother was frantic. We found you trembling in the corner of your bedroom closet under your toys, sobbing uncontrollably at the mere sight of packed bags. Several months later, I remember that you shared with me what it was like to have five foster homes. We were in the garage removing the training wheels from your bike. I remember the pain in your words when you described the separation from your favorite foster family. Summer camp, just a few weeks, hugs and kisses, be a good little boy… but they never came back. No wonder packed bags meant something very different to you than most children. I am so sorry, I wish I would have known. I will never forget later that year standing amidst family members in a courtroom before a judge. His Honor asked you if you wanted to be adopted – you said YES! When the judge asked you why, your soft-spoken little words resounded through the courtroom as if they were spoken through a bullhorn… "I need a forever mom and dad." I will remember that moment perhaps more than any other in my life. Ten years later, you’re now taller than your mother. I can no longer carry you on my shoulders. I can no longer catch you while playing in the back yard. I no longer comfort you after a fall from your bike. But I will always be proud to be your forever dad. That was so beautiful. Thanks for sharing it. Sure was. Thanks for sharing your touching story Dad. How did your son like it? Julia

Yes, he is now, 15? Old enough to speak for himself for sure. Does he know his dad is such a sucker for a sweet story? ducks

Response:

Top Posting: Aww, sweet. You do have a way with words. But here to remind you, you’ve only just begun. Wait until your son makes you a grandpa, dad. It’s magical. :) Kathy (grandma to # 3 & 3/4) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ten years ago today, I became a dad. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was sitting in the waiting room of the county office of Children and Youth – my life was about to change forever. I would have a son. The social services caseworker brought you around the corner and there you were – my boy! A watershed moment never to be forgotten. You were so small for a five year old boy, hair unkempt, huge toothy smile, wearing a worn out San Francisco 49ers jacket… too cute for words. We only had a few hours together that first day. We went to Chuck E. Cheese for lunch, then dropped by the mall to get a Valentine’s rose for your foster mother. I remember lifting you up to ride on my shoulders, just like my own father did long ago. You hung on for dear life, not used to having a dad carry you that way. Your little hands were planted firmly over my eyes, completely blocking my vision. I doubt that you were as scared as I was. The day would have been perfect had we been able to take you with us, but it was more than six weeks until your mother and I brought you home for good. In the interim, we had many day visits and a few overnight weekends, but each time we had to return you to your foster home. It was the longest six weeks of my life - you were more than worth the wait. Four weeks later on the morning we were to leave for Disney World, we couldn’t find you anywhere. We called your name, looked all over the house, checked the swingset and backyard shed – nothing. Your mother was frantic. We found you trembling in the corner of your bedroom closet under your toys, sobbing uncontrollably at the mere sight of packed bags. Several months later, I remember that you shared with me what it was like to have five foster homes. We were in the garage removing the training wheels from your bike. I remember the pain in your words when you described the separation from your favorite foster family. Summer camp, just a few weeks, hugs and kisses, be a good little boy… but they never came back. No wonder packed bags meant something very different to you than most children. I am so sorry, I wish I would have known. I will never forget later that year standing amidst family members in a courtroom before a judge. His Honor asked you if you wanted to be adopted – you said YES! When the judge asked you why, your soft-spoken little words resounded through the courtroom as if they were spoken through a bullhorn… "I need a forever mom and dad." I will remember that moment perhaps more than any other in my life. Ten years later, you’re now taller than your mother. I can no longer carry you on my shoulders. I can no longer catch you while playing in the back yard. I no longer comfort you after a fall from your bike. But I will always be proud to be your forever dad.

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I hope you printed that out and put it in an envelope for him to read when he’s all grown up – if you didn’t give it to him today! Thanks so much for sharing – it’s nice to read about that much love and hope. chickeyd

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That was wonderful. I wish you all a joyful future! Rupa

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ten years ago today, I became a dad. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was sitting in the waiting room of the county office of Children and Youth – my life was about to change forever. I would have a son. The social services caseworker brought you around the corner and there you were – my boy! A watershed moment never to be forgotten. You were so small for a five year old boy, hair unkempt, huge toothy smile, wearing a worn out San Francisco 49ers jacket… too cute for words. We only had a few hours together that first day. We went to Chuck E. Cheese for lunch, then dropped by the mall to get a Valentine’s rose for your foster mother. I remember lifting you up to ride on my shoulders, just like my own father did long ago. You hung on for dear life, not used to having a dad carry you that way. Your little hands were planted firmly over my eyes, completely blocking my vision. I doubt that you were as scared as I was. The day would have been perfect had we been able to take you with us, but it was more than six weeks until your mother and I brought you home for good. In the interim, we had many day visits and a few overnight weekends, but each time we had to return you to your foster home. It was the longest six weeks of my life - you were more than worth the wait. Four weeks later on the morning we were to leave for Disney World, we couldn’t find you anywhere. We called your name, looked all over the house, checked the swingset and backyard shed – nothing. Your mother was frantic. We found you trembling in the corner of your bedroom closet under your toys, sobbing uncontrollably at the mere sight of packed bags. Several months later, I remember that you shared with me what it was like to have five foster homes. We were in the garage removing the training wheels from your bike. I remember the pain in your words when you described the separation from your favorite foster family. Summer camp, just a few weeks, hugs and kisses, be a good little boy… but they never came back. No wonder packed bags meant something very different to you than most children. I am so sorry, I wish I would have known. I will never forget later that year standing amidst family members in a courtroom before a judge. His Honor asked you if you wanted to be adopted – you said YES! When the judge asked you why, your soft-spoken little words resounded through the courtroom as if they were spoken through a bullhorn… "I need a forever mom and dad." I will remember that moment perhaps more than any other in my life. Ten years later, you’re now taller than your mother. I can no longer carry you on my shoulders. I can no longer catch you while playing in the back yard. I no longer comfort you after a fall from your bike. But I will always be proud to be your forever dad.

That was so beautiful. Thanks for sharing it.

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Sure was. Thanks for sharing your touching story Dad. How did your son like it? Julia

Response:

Bravo, Dad. I hope your son loves it as much as I did. J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ten years ago today, I became a dad. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was sitting in the waiting room of the county office of Children and Youth – my life was about to change forever. I would have a son. The social services caseworker brought you around the corner and there you were – my boy! A watershed moment never to be forgotten. You were so small for a five year old boy, hair unkempt, huge toothy smile, wearing a worn out San Francisco 49ers jacket… too cute for words. We only had a few hours together that first day. We went to Chuck E. Cheese for lunch, then dropped by the mall to get a Valentine’s rose for your foster mother. I remember lifting you up to ride on my shoulders, just like my own father did long ago. You hung on for dear life, not used to having a dad carry you that way. Your little hands were planted firmly over my eyes, completely blocking my vision. I doubt that you were as scared as I was. The day would have been perfect had we been able to take you with us, but it was more than six weeks until your mother and I brought you home for good. In the interim, we had many day visits and a few overnight weekends, but each time we had to return you to your foster home. It was the longest six weeks of my life - you were more than worth the wait. Four weeks later on the morning we were to leave for Disney World, we couldn’t find you anywhere. We called your name, looked all over the house, checked the swingset and backyard shed – nothing. Your mother was frantic. We found you trembling in the corner of your bedroom closet under your toys, sobbing uncontrollably at the mere sight of packed bags. Several months later, I remember that you shared with me what it was like to have five foster homes. We were in the garage removing the training wheels from your bike. I remember the pain in your words when you described the separation from your favorite foster family. Summer camp, just a few weeks, hugs and kisses, be a good little boy… but they never came back. No wonder packed bags meant something very different to you than most children. I am so sorry, I wish I would have known. I will never forget later that year standing amidst family members in a courtroom before a judge. His Honor asked you if you wanted to be adopted – you said YES! When the judge asked you why, your soft-spoken little words resounded through the courtroom as if they were spoken through a bullhorn… "I need a forever mom and dad." I will remember that moment perhaps more than any other in my life. Ten years later, you’re now taller than your mother. I can no longer carry you on my shoulders. I can no longer catch you while playing in the back yard. I no longer comfort you after a fall from your bike. But I will always be proud to be your forever dad.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ten years ago today, I became a dad. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was sitting in the waiting room of the county office of Children and Youth – my life was about to change forever. I would have a son. The social services caseworker brought you around the corner and there you were – my boy! A watershed moment never to be forgotten. You were so small for a five year old boy, hair unkempt, huge toothy smile, wearing a worn out San Francisco 49ers jacket… too cute for words. We only had a few hours together that first day. We went to Chuck E. Cheese for lunch, then dropped by the mall to get a Valentine’s rose for your foster mother. I remember lifting you up to ride on my shoulders, just like my own father did long ago. You hung on for dear life, not used to having a dad carry you that way. Your little hands were planted firmly over my eyes, completely blocking my vision. I doubt that you were as scared as I was. The day would have been perfect had we been able to take you with us, but it was more than six weeks until your mother and I brought you home for good. In the interim, we had many day visits and a few overnight weekends, but each time we had to return you to your foster home. It was the longest six weeks of my life - you were more than worth the wait. Four weeks later on the morning we were to leave for Disney World, we couldn’t find you anywhere. We called your name, looked all over the house, checked the swingset and backyard shed – nothing. Your mother was frantic. We found you trembling in the corner of your bedroom closet under your toys, sobbing uncontrollably at the mere sight of packed bags. Several months later, I remember that you shared with me what it was like to have five foster homes. We were in the garage removing the training wheels from your bike. I remember the pain in your words when you described the separation from your favorite foster family. Summer camp, just a few weeks, hugs and kisses, be a good little boy… but they never came back. No wonder packed bags meant something very different to you than most children. I am so sorry, I wish I would have known. I will never forget later that year standing amidst family members in a courtroom before a judge. His Honor asked you if you wanted to be adopted – you said YES! When the judge asked you why, your soft-spoken little words resounded through the courtroom as if they were spoken through a bullhorn… "I need a forever mom and dad." I will remember that moment perhaps more than any other in my life. Ten years later, you’re now taller than your mother. I can no longer carry you on my shoulders. I can no longer catch you while playing in the back yard. I no longer comfort you after a fall from your bike. But I will always be proud to be your forever dad. Wow. What a wonderful thing to share. Thanks so much for posting this. Now excuse me, I need to find a tissue

Hand me one too. This was so very touching and sweet. KL – Robyn Resident Witchypoo #1557

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Response:

Wow. What a wonderful thing to share. Thanks so much for posting this. Now excuse me, I need to find a tissue

Response:

Ten years ago today, I became a dad. I remember it like it was yesterday. I was sitting in the waiting room of the county office of Children and Youth – my life was about to change forever. I would have a son. The social services caseworker brought you around the corner and there you were – my boy! A watershed moment never to be forgotten. You were so small for a five year old boy, hair unkempt, huge toothy smile, wearing a worn out San Francisco 49ers jacket… too cute for words. We only had a few hours together that first day. We went to Chuck E. Cheese for lunch, then dropped by the mall to get a Valentine’s rose for your foster mother. I remember lifting you up to ride on my shoulders, just like my own father did long ago. You hung on for dear life, not used to having a dad carry you that way. Your little hands were planted firmly over my eyes, completely blocking my vision. I doubt that you were as scared as I was. The day would have been perfect had we been able to take you with us, but it was more than six weeks until your mother and I brought you home for good. In the interim, we had many day visits and a few overnight weekends, but each time we had to return you to your foster home. It was the longest six weeks of my life - you were more than worth the wait. Four weeks later on the morning we were to leave for Disney World, we couldn’t find you anywhere. We called your name, looked all over the house, checked the swingset and backyard shed – nothing. Your mother was frantic. We found you trembling in the corner of your bedroom closet under your toys, sobbing uncontrollably at the mere sight of packed bags. Several months later, I remember that you shared with me what it was like to have five foster homes. We were in the garage removing the training wheels from your bike. I remember the pain in your words when you described the separation from your favorite foster family. Summer camp, just a few weeks, hugs and kisses, be a good little boy… but they never came back. No wonder packed bags meant something very different to you than most children. I am so sorry, I wish I would have known. I will never forget later that year standing amidst family members in a courtroom before a judge. His Honor asked you if you wanted to be adopted – you said YES! When the judge asked you why, your soft-spoken little words resounded through the courtroom as if they were spoken through a bullhorn… "I need a forever mom and dad." I will remember that moment perhaps more than any other in my life. Ten years later, you’re now taller than your mother. I can no longer carry you on my shoulders. I can no longer catch you while playing in the back yard. I no longer comfort you after a fall from your bike. But I will always be proud to be your forever dad.

Response:

Abandoned girl child restored to parents

admin — Mon, 07 Feb 2005 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.deepikaglobal.com/latestnews.asp?ncode=25290 Abandoned girl child restored to parents Tirupati, Feb 7 (UNI) An 18-month-old abandoned girl child in Tirumala was restored to her mother and the foster father amid apprehensions about her future safety. Sonali, daughter of Geetha and Prithyamna Kumar hailing from Hubli, was handed over to Geetha and her husband after necessary formalities yesterday, TTD sources said.

This sounds really scary. One can only hope that after all the publicity, he will hesitate to harm the kid (if he had intended to do so). Often, in situations like this, the maternal grandparents raise the child. I suppose the woman’s parents must not be able or willing. Rupa

Response:

http://www.deepikaglobal.com/latestnews.asp?ncode=25290 Abandoned girl child restored to parents Tirupati, Feb 7 (UNI) An 18-month-old abandoned girl child in Tirumala was restored to her mother and the foster father amid apprehensions about her future safety. Sonali, daughter of Geetha and Prithyamna Kumar hailing from Hubli, was handed over to Geetha and her husband after necessary formalities yesterday, TTD sources said. Sonali was allegedly abandoned in Tirumala on January 29. She was spotted by TTD Vigilance staff near the ‘Vaikuntam Queue’ complex and was taken care of by TTD special officer Dharma Reddy. Later on Thursday, the child was put into a home ”Akshya Kshetram” of the Social Welfare Department for adoption purposes if the parents were not identified. Prithyamna Kumar, an engineer, telephoned from Hubli yesterday to claim the child after seeing some news report. On the other hand, some neighbours of Kumar too telephoned several TTD officials urging them not to hand over the girl child to the foster father, fearing danger to her life. It came to light that Geetha and Rithyumna Kumar got married three months ago. While Geetha was a divorcee, it was said that a criminal case was pending against Kumar as his first wife had died in mysterious circumstances. Both of them married against the wishes of Kumar’s parents as they did not like him to marry a woman with a girl child. Since then, the child allegedly remained a burden to them and with the intention of abandoning her, they undertook a 25-day tour of the country. Kumar told the TTD special officer A V Dharma Reddy that the child went missing during their recent visit to Tirumala and he had lodged a complaint with the vigilance staff. However Kumar, reportedly had told his friends and neighbours in Hubli that they had left the child with some relatives. The child was handed over to Geetha and Kumar after due warning. A good friend will come and bail you out of jail . . . but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn . . . that was fun!" —–Unknown