Foster Parents FAQ » Foster Children » It's Too Quiet Here

It's Too Quiet Here

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron wrote: > > >> Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state and the > > foster > > >> care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being. > > >Sorry Bob, but from that statement it seems that you really dont > > >understand either the system or the people that make it up.  An > > >individuals sense of "well being" is an internal thing affected by > > >external influences, any external influence.  A parent can be just as > > >destructive to that sense as any other influence. Most Foster Parents > > >endeavor to avoid any negative influence on the children in their care, > > >mainly because they have been through enough.  They dont need any more > > >negativity in their lives. > > Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that endeavor to > > perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. Sure they > > like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side roads, but > > the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care have been > > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. > > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These > > children are removed for political and personal gain. > Your vast ignorance shows in every word of the above passage.

Actually, Ron, you have yet to show in any way that ANYTHING Bob has said is ignorant, or in the least bit incorrect or inaccurate. You, in your standard tactic of evidencing monumenal delusional denial, simply rant and rage, making these unfounded claims and accusations, unsubstantiated in any credible or legitimate way, against anything which you disagree with and especially which correctly, accurately and truthfully points out the heinous offensiveness of your personal self-serving agenda. > You dont have any facts to back those statements up,

Actually he does, as we all do on the correct side of this issue, Ron… as have been presented over and over again in this and other ngs, on presented websites, and as have been cited many times in such places. YOU are the one who falsely (demonstrably falsely) claims to have read what has been presented… only to just cavalierly dismiss anything which disagrees with your selfserving agenda, Ron.  This has been conclusively proven time and time again here and in other newsgroups. > and are more than just guilty of intentional ignorance, but also of blatant fear > mongering.

Why do I hear Herr Goebbells and Her Himmler making the same statements when Jews spoke the truth in Germany back in the 30’s?  Hmmmm?  I wonder. (but I don’t wonder too much) Can you substantiate any of your claims here, Ron?  You never have in the past, and since your statements are coming from nothing but selfserving delusional denial, in complete contradiction to all the facts that exist and have been presented, I seriously doubt you will ever do anything but irrationally and speciously rant and rave your dishonest and delusional attempts to defend your self-serving agenda, Ron. That is all you ever do. <The rest of Ron VD’s braying idiocy mercifully snipped> — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that endeavor to > > perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. Sure they > > like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side roads, but > > the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care have been > > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. > > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These > > children are removed for political and personal gain. > Absolutely!  Thank you, Bob, for speaking the truth to counter Ron VD’s > self-serving lies.

I’m glad to see that you have not fallen off the face of the planet Neal, your pathetic "anti CPS" drivel, misrepresentations, and outright lies provide a great source of amusement for me each and every time you post. Ron — Not all is as it seems, In some cases life really does imitate art. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

In article <399EB7F0.4C87F…@home.net>,   Neal Feldman [The Ignorant] <silverst…@home.net> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ron wrote: > > > >> Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state and the > > > foster > > > >> care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being. > > > >Sorry Bob, but from that statement it seems that you really dont > > > >understand either the system or the people that make it up.  An > > > >individuals sense of "well being" is an internal thing affected by > > > >external influences, any external influence.  A parent can be just as > > > >destructive to that sense as any other influence. Most Foster Parents > > > >endeavor to avoid any negative influence on the children in their care, > > > >mainly because they have been through enough.  They dont need any more > > > >negativity in their lives. > > > Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that endeavor to > > > perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. Sure they > > > like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side roads, but > > > the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care have been > > > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. > > > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These > > > children are removed for political and personal gain. > > Your vast ignorance shows in every word of the above passage. > Actually, Ron, you have yet to show in any way that ANYTHING Bob has said is > ignorant, or in the least bit incorrect or inaccurate.

Since he provides nothing of substance in any way, shape, or form to this conversation, I dont see any reason to attempt to prove him wrong, there is nothing of substance to disprove.  BUT, obviously you are unable to see that.  You see substance where there is obviously none (no real suprise here, as long as his views are the same as yours, it is the reaction we all expect from you). > > You dont have any facts to back those statements up, > Actually he does, as we all do on the correct side of this issue, Ron… as have > been presented over and over again in this and other ngs, on presented websites, > and as have been cited many times in such places.

Do you have some kind of special news reader that allows you to read things that he does not post?  He has stated opinion, completely without any attempt to provide any substance for his argument.  What fact (other than his, and now your, ignorance) is presented in his post?  Hmmm? > > and are more than just guilty of intentional ignorance, but also of blatant fear > > mongering. > Why do I hear Herr Goebbells and Her Himmler making the same

statements when Jews > spoke the truth in Germany back in the 30’s?  Hmmmm?  I wonder. (but I don’t > wonder too much)

Just like you!  Hey, for once you got something right!  You hear yourself sounding like the ignorant lying moron we all know and love. > Can you substantiate any of your claims here, Ron?

The substance is in his post, requiring no additional input from me. All you need to do is read it (but as usual you are unable to see that.  It would require you, the all knowing and all seeing Neal, to admit that you have made an error, and that will never happen). Ron — Not all is as it seems, In some cases life really does imitate art. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron wrote: > > > Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that > endeavor to > > > perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. Sure > they > > > like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side > roads, but > > > the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care have > been > > > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be > found. > > > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal > funding. These > > > children are removed for political and personal gain. > > Absolutely!  Thank you, Bob, for speaking the truth to counter Ron > VD’s > > self-serving lies. > I’m glad to see that you have not fallen off the face of the planet > Neal, your pathetic "anti CPS" drivel, misrepresentations, and outright > lies provide a great source of amusement for me each and every time you > post. > Ron

Nice to see you are still your delusional and dishonest projecting self, Ron. Would hate to lose my best poster child. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron wrote: > In article <399EB7F0.4C87F…@home.net>, >   Neal Feldman [The Ignorant] <silverst…@home.net> wrote: > > Ron wrote: > > > > >> Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state > and the > > > > foster > > > > >> care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being. > > > > >Sorry Bob, but from that statement it seems that you really dont > > > > >understand either the system or the people that make it up.  An > > > > >individuals sense of "well being" is an internal thing affected > by > > > > >external influences, any external influence.  A parent can be > just as > > > > >destructive to that sense as any other influence. Most Foster > Parents > > > > >endeavor to avoid any negative influence on the children in > their care, > > > > >mainly because they have been through enough.  They dont need > any more > > > > >negativity in their lives. > > > > Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that > endeavor to > > > > perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. > Sure they > > > > like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side > roads, but > > > > the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care > have been > > > > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be > found. > > > > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal > funding. These > > > > children are removed for political and personal gain. > > > Your vast ignorance shows in every word of the above passage. > > Actually, Ron, you have yet to show in any way that ANYTHING Bob has > said is > > ignorant, or in the least bit incorrect or inaccurate. > Since he provides nothing of substance in any way, shape, or form to > this conversation, I dont see any reason to attempt to prove him wrong, > there is nothing of substance to disprove.

So you continually continue to claim, when the facts are clearly quite to the contrary. But that is what makes you such a marvelous poster child, Ron.  Your delusion, your dishonesty, and your utter and completely lack of anything even approaching the concepts of honor, integrity, legitimacy or credibility. <The rest of Ron VD’s delusions, dishonesty and braying idiocy mercifully snipped> — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob wrote: > Ron wrote in message <399CB0DF.3668D…@home.com>… > >Bob wrote: > >> observer wrote in message <8ngjij$1…@edrn.newsguy.com>… > >> >"Well said [regarding foster children]." > >> >Thank you. > >> >My basic premise is that, at some point in their life, every child must > >> know > >> >that someone cares about them more than that adult cares about > themselves. > >> >Without that assurance and the security it brings, the transition from > >> child to > >> >adult can be an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned. > >> Children do not get their security from assurances from the state. A > childs > >> secutity comes from his parents and the protection they afford. And, when > >> the state removes innocent children from loving homes for political and > >> personal gain, it IS an absolutely miserable experience for all > concerned. > >> >People who can provide that sense of well-being for children who all too > >> often > >> >have either been beaten like a stray dog caught in a henhouse or ignored > >> like a > >> >stray cat in winter are rare finds. > >> Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state and the > foster > >> care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being. > >Sorry Bob, but from that statement it seems that you really dont > >understand either the system or the people that make it up.  An > >individuals sense of "well being" is an internal thing affected by > >external influences, any external influence.  A parent can be just as > >destructive to that sense as any other influence. Most Foster Parents > >endeavor to avoid any negative influence on the children in their care, > >mainly because they have been through enough.  They dont need any more > >negativity in their lives. > Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that endeavor to > perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. Sure they > like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side roads, but > the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care have been > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These > children are removed for political and personal gain.

Absolutely!  Thank you, Bob, for speaking the truth to counter Ron VD’s self-serving lies. > >Children > >> removed from their parents lose their ability to trust and to form close > >> relationships. > >In many cases this is an accurate statement.  But you fail to mention > >that most of these children dont have any reason to "trust" long before > >they are removed from the home of their parents. > See above. "Most of these children" come from non-abusive homes. While a > small minority may have lost their ability to trust before CPS intervention, > The vast majority suffer this emotional trauma at the hands of the state and > it’s approved service providers.

Absolutely correct.  Ron VD’s desperate attempts to claim ‘most’ when what he is speaking of is clearly a miniscule minority is offensively dishonest in the extreme. > > The justifications given for this shameful system are a fraud > >> and a lie. Child Protective Services and it’s foster care system are a > >> national disgrace. > >One opinion, and an ignorant one at that. > See above.

Agreed… That is one of Ron VD’s tactics… anything he disagrees with, no matter how true and substantiated, is ‘just another opinion’ and if it disagrees with Ron VD’s selfserving agenda it is defined by him as ‘ignorant’.  Ron VD demonstrates himself to be a classic case of Delusional Denial. > Child welfare agencies and those that blindly support them (at a > substantial profit) are frauds and liars.

Absolutely, as well as for the vast majority conclusively proven. > This assumption is based on facts > entered into record by CPS agencies themselves. Feather Houston, Secretary, > PA Dept of Welfare, stated in the PA bulletin that 6000 children a year in > PA are victims of child abuse. This is a fraudulent lie told to justify the > removal of record #’s of children from their homes.

Yup. > Similar ridiculous lies are told daily to unsuspecting voters to keep the > funding > stream flowing for the political and personal gain of a few.

Anything to protect their cushy jobs, their funding streams, and their personal power trips. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> >When a kid gobbles down a cheap can of store-bought peaches like most kids > >> >do cake and ice cream at a birthday party, then it takes an adult of > >> >exceptional > >> >strength and patience to coax a delicate bud from the trampled mud. > >> Despite your philisophical hallucinations of strength, patience, delicate > >> buds and trampled muds, you and your fellow travelers destroy hundreds of > >> thousands of innocent children and families every year. You and the > agencies > >> you defend should stand trial for your ungodly conspiracy. > >"Ungodly"?  Providing a safe and caring environment for children in need > >is "ungodly"? > Forcing "safe and caring" environments on children that neither want nor > need the states idea of a "safe and caring" environment is ungodly IMHO.

Ungodly, offensive and entirely in violation of the constitutional, civil, human, due process and parental rights of those citizens involved. > Especially when these state provided "safe and caring" environments are > little more than "factories of abuse" that harm many times more children > than all the parents in America combined.

Per capita. > > Not of ANY god that I have ever heard of or studied.  You > >claim to know the mind of your "god" figure, then I pity you and those > >around you, for your "god" figure is truly a most cruel thing. > Your belief that your participation in the wholesale abuse of innocent > children is sanctioned by God (if you word it just right) is not for me to > judge.

But the evidence is abundantly clear that what Ron VD desperately and dishonestly attempts to defend IS a ‘most cruel thing’. > >Your claims have no basis in fact, and only go to prove how low the > >"anti CPS" crowd are willing to go to make their point. > >Ron > My claim is that the vast majority of children in foster care have been > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These > children are removed for political and personal gain. > It is based in and supported by facts. If you care to dispute these facts, > go for it.

That will never happen.  Ron VD has a long history of delusional denial.  He will just make the same unfounded and unsubstantiated claims in the face of unrefuted and conclusive evidence that he did above. He is just like the rest of the power tripping child-stealing anti-parent zealots of Gestapo CPS and the Child Abuse and Kidnapping Industry. But do keep pointing out his selfserving and delusional lies, Bob. You will never convince Ron VD… but you can help prevent him and his kind from covering up their crimes with their lies and projected delusions. — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state and the > foster > >> care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being. > >Sorry Bob, but from that statement it seems that you really dont > >understand either the system or the people that make it up.  An > >individuals sense of "well being" is an internal thing affected by > >external influences, any external influence.  A parent can be just as > >destructive to that sense as any other influence. Most Foster Parents > >endeavor to avoid any negative influence on the children in their care, > >mainly because they have been through enough.  They dont need any more > >negativity in their lives. > Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that endeavor to > perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. Sure they > like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side roads, but > the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care have been > removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. > These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These > children are removed for political and personal gain.

Your vast ignorance shows in every word of the above passage.  You dont have any facts to back those statements up, and are more than just guilty of intentional ignorance, but also of blatant fear mongering.  I can see that having an adult conversation on this subject with you is impossible, your views are not that of an adult but an angry child. The remainder of Bob’s blatant and studied ignorance (for which this is truly no excuse) has been clipped as a service to news group readers everywhere.  Sorry, but it is just more ignorant "anti CPS" drivel and is totally without foundation.  Another "troll" exposed. Ron

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ron wrote in message <399CB0DF.3668D…@home.com>… >Bob wrote: >> observer wrote in message <8ngjij$1…@edrn.newsguy.com>… >> >"Well said [regarding foster children]." >> >Thank you. >> >My basic premise is that, at some point in their life, every child must >> know >> >that someone cares about them more than that adult cares about themselves. >> >Without that assurance and the security it brings, the transition from >> child to >> >adult can be an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned. >> Children do not get their security from assurances from the state. A childs >> secutity comes from his parents and the protection they afford. And, when >> the state removes innocent children from loving homes for political and >> personal gain, it IS an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned. >> >People who can provide that sense of well-being for children who all too >> often >> >have either been beaten like a stray dog caught in a henhouse or ignored >> like a >> >stray cat in winter are rare finds. >> Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state and the foster >> care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being. >Sorry Bob, but from that statement it seems that you really dont >understand either the system or the people that make it up.  An >individuals sense of "well being" is an internal thing affected by >external influences, any external influence.  A parent can be just as >destructive to that sense as any other influence. Most Foster Parents >endeavor to avoid any negative influence on the children in their care, >mainly because they have been through enough.  They dont need any more >negativity in their lives.

Actually Ron, most foster care service providers are hacks that endeavor to perpetuate the wholesale removal of children from their homes. Sure they like to discuss the issue by taking warm and fuzzy feel good side roads, but the fact remains. The vast majority of children in foster care have been removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These children are removed for political and personal gain. >Children >> removed from their parents lose their ability to trust and to form close >> relationships. >In many cases this is an accurate statement.  But you fail to mention >that most of these children dont have any reason to "trust" long before >they are removed from the home of their parents.

See above. "Most of these children" come from non-abusive homes. While a small minority may have lost their ability to trust before CPS intervention, The vast majority suffer this emotional trauma at the hands of the state and it’s approved service providers. > The justifications given for this shameful system are a fraud >> and a lie. Child Protective Services and it’s foster care system are a >> national disgrace. >One opinion, and an ignorant one at that.

See above. Child welfare agencies and those that blindly support them (at a substantial profit) are frauds and liars. This assumption is based on facts entered into record by CPS agencies themselves. Feather Houston, Secretary, PA Dept of Welfare, stated in the PA bulletin that 6000 children a year in PA are victims of child abuse. This is a fraudulent lie told to justify the removal of record #’s of children from their homes. Similar ridiculous lies are told daily to unsuspecting voters to keep the funding stream flowing for the political and personal gain of a few. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >When a kid gobbles down a cheap can of store-bought peaches like most kids >> do >> >cake and ice cream at a birthday party, then it takes an adult of >> exceptional >> >strength and patience to coax a delicate bud from the trampled mud. >> Despite your philisophical hallucinations of strength, patience, delicate >> buds and trampled muds, you and your fellow travelers destroy hundreds of >> thousands of innocent children and families every year. You and the agencies >> you defend should stand trial for your ungodly conspiracy. >"Ungodly"?  Providing a safe and caring environment for children in need >is "ungodly"?

Forcing "safe and caring" environments on children that neither want nor need the states idea of a "safe and caring" environment is ungodly IMHO. Especially when these state provided "safe and caring" environments are little more than "factories of abuse" that harm many times more children than all the parents in America combined. > Not of ANY god that I have ever heard of or studied.  You >claim to know the mind of your "god" figure, then I pity you and those >around you, for your "god" figure is truly a most cruel thing.

Your belief that your participation in the wholesale abuse of innocent children is sanctioned by God (if you word it just right) is not for me to judge. >Your claims have no basis in fact, and only go to prove how low the >"anti CPS" crowd are willing to go to make their point. >Ron

My claim is that the vast majority of children in foster care have been removed from homes where no indication of abuse or neglect can be found. These children are removed to fuel record levels of federal funding. These children are removed for political and personal gain. It is based in and supported by facts. If you care to dispute these facts, go for it. Bob

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob wrote: > observer wrote in message <8ngjij$1…@edrn.newsguy.com>… > >"Well said [regarding foster children]." > >Thank you. > >My basic premise is that, at some point in their life, every child must > know > >that someone cares about them more than that adult cares about themselves. > >Without that assurance and the security it brings, the transition from > child to > >adult can be an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned. > Children do not get their security from assurances from the state. A childs > secutity comes from his parents and the protection they afford. And, when > the state removes innocent children from loving homes for political and > personal gain, it IS an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned. > >People who can provide that sense of well-being for children who all too > often > >have either been beaten like a stray dog caught in a henhouse or ignored > like a > >stray cat in winter are rare finds. > Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state and the foster > care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being.

Sorry Bob, but from that statement it seems that you really dont understand either the system or the people that make it up.  An individuals sense of "well being" is an internal thing affected by external influences, any external influence.  A parent can be just as destructive to that sense as any other influence.  Most Foster Parents endeavor to avoid any negative influence on the children in their care, mainly because they have been through enough.  They dont need any more negativity in their lives.   Children > removed from their parents lose their ability to trust and to form close > relationships.

In many cases this is an accurate statement.  But you fail to mention that most of these children dont have any reason to "trust" long before they are removed from the home of their parents.  The justifications given for this shameful system are a fraud > and a lie. Child Protective Services and it’s foster care system are a > national disgrace.

One opinion, and an ignorant one at that. > >When a kid gobbles down a cheap can of store-bought peaches like most kids > do > >cake and ice cream at a birthday party, then it takes an adult of > exceptional > >strength and patience to coax a delicate bud from the trampled mud. > Despite your philisophical hallucinations of strength, patience, delicate > buds and trampled muds, you and your fellow travelers destroy hundreds of > thousands of innocent children and families every year. You and the agencies > you defend should stand trial for your ungodly conspiracy.

"Ungodly"?  Providing a safe and caring environment for children in need is "ungodly"?  Not of ANY god that I have ever heard of or studied.  You claim to know the mind of your "god" figure, then I pity you and those around you, for your "god" figure is truly a most cruel thing. Your claims have no basis in fact, and only go to prove how low the "anti CPS" crowd are willing to go to make their point. Ron

Response:

"Despite your philisophical hallucinations of strength, patience, delicate buds and trampled muds, you and your fellow travelers destroy hundreds of thousands of innocent children and families every year. You and the agencies you defend should stand trial for your ungodly conspiracy." Exactly which agencies were those?   If you will read that which I have written regarding government intervention in families, you will find that I am very much in opposition to the government as "master nanny". However, having known a few foster parents, all I did was to praise people who could love and care for other people’s children as if they were there own.  The problem is that most foster parents cannot rise to this level of concern. Now, if you want to conduct a witch hunt based on that basic belief, you will probably find it most difficult to find a jury that will convict. Meanwhile, your Junior G-man badge out of breakfast cereal box McCarthyite reference to "fellow traveler" suggests that you are, to put it politely, out of touch with reality. Have a nice day and, for the safety of yourself and others, please stay away from sharp objects.

Response:

observer wrote in message <8ngjij$1…@edrn.newsguy.com>… >"Well said [regarding foster children]." >Thank you. >My basic premise is that, at some point in their life, every child must know >that someone cares about them more than that adult cares about themselves. >Without that assurance and the security it brings, the transition from child to >adult can be an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned.

Children do not get their security from assurances from the state. A childs secutity comes from his parents and the protection they afford. And, when the state removes innocent children from loving homes for political and personal gain, it IS an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned. >People who can provide that sense of well-being for children who all too often >have either been beaten like a stray dog caught in a henhouse or ignored like a >stray cat in winter are rare finds.

Only parents can provide this sence of well being. The state and the foster care system it supports destroy childrens sense of well being. Children removed from their parents lose their ability to trust and to form close relationships. The justifications given for this shameful system are a fraud and a lie. Child Protective Services and it’s foster care system are a national disgrace. >When a kid gobbles down a cheap can of store-bought peaches like most kids do >cake and ice cream at a birthday party, then it takes an adult of exceptional >strength and patience to coax a delicate bud from the trampled mud.

Despite your philisophical hallucinations of strength, patience, delicate buds and trampled muds, you and your fellow travelers destroy hundreds of thousands of innocent children and families every year. You and the agencies you defend should stand trial for your ungodly conspiracy. Bob

Response:

"Well said [regarding foster children]." Thank you. My basic premise is that, at some point in their life, every child must know that someone cares about them more than that adult cares about themselves. Without that assurance and the security it brings, the transition from child to adult can be an absolutely miserable experience for all concerned. People who can provide that sense of well-being for children who all too often have either been beaten like a stray dog caught in a henhouse or ignored like a stray cat in winter are rare finds. When a kid gobbles down a cheap can of store-bought peaches like most kids do cake and ice cream at a birthday party, then it takes an adult of exceptional strength and patience to coax a delicate bud from the trampled mud.

Response:

In order to give meaningful advice, we need more information.  "Defient…especially…in public" you say. The boy you now have, which one is he, the 7 year old or the 8 year old? Whose decision was it to separate them?  Why was it done? How long have they been separated? Were they in other foster homes before yours? What’s the status of the original family? What was their original home like? Does he ever see his original family? Is he ever allowed to see his brother? What’s his brother’s emotional disposition? Who placed the boy on Ritalin? How long has he been maintained on Ritalin? What is the dose? Are you giving him any other medications? Have you ever had an opportunity to observe the boy when he was not medicated? What’s his opinion of the Ritalin? What do you mean by defiance? How does he display his defiance? Do you insist on non-defiance? Does he act defiant when you ignore him or when you give him attention? Do you recognize his opinions? When in public, do you feel he needs to obey you instantly? Do you praise him when he acts appropriately in public? Is there anything you do that might cause him to act defiant? When he displays his defiance, does he do so to assert his independence? Does he simply want attention? Does he want to embarrass you in public? Or is he asking the public for help? What do you do when your "patience runs… thin"? How have you resolved defiant situations? To what or whom does he respond favorably? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Joseph Odom" <baby…@wnonline.net> wrote: > Hi, me and my wife are foster parents.  We received our first children this > past January, brothers–7 & 8, and since then one has moved to a new home. > The child I have now has a very defiant attitude, especially when we are > public.  Any advice.  Yeah, yeah, tried all the "proper" time out stuff and > training procedures.  Nothing seems to work.  Our patience wears a "l  i  t > t  l  e > t  h  i  n"  every now and again.  But he is a wonderful, loving child when > he wants to be.  He is taking Ritalin by the way. > Neal Feldman <silverst…@home.net> wrote in message > > Nice to know I am missed. > > Stephanie wrote: > > > Does anyone know where Neal has disappeared too? It’s really quiet in > here, > > > and in alt.fosterparents. > > > I kinda miss him. > > >Steph > > Truth is I started a new job and it took a lot out of me getting used to > it, > > the karma of it an all. I am not at liberty to say what it was, but only > that I > > will not be at it long (thankfully). > > Also being summer my kids had the audacity to demand my time for things… > 9-} > > But I apologize and I will endeavor to not neglect my duties in these > > newsgroups. > > Neal > > — > > ============================================================= > > Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ > > We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -observer wrote: > "The [foster] child I have now has a very defiant attitude, especially when we > are public." > Without exception, whether with their quality time or their hard earned money, > the best foster parents have been "givers" rather than "takers". > These are also people who could talk to children and frequently had older > children still living at home who could also talk to the new arrival. > Communication is important to the survival of a family.  Kids often wind up in > foster care because their parents were unable to communicate effectively with > among themselves or with their children. > Adults who are successful in disciplining children must send two unambiguous > messages to that child. > One is that the child’s being good carries with it the adult’s guarantee of > protection.  This may mean taking on other adults such as schoolteachers or > neighborhood busybodies accustomed to blaming kids who are different for > anything that goes wrong. > The second message is that no one can protect the child if he or she misbehaves. > This may mean finding out firsthand that a frantic phone call to a perceived > authority figure doesn’t prevent a well deserved spanking. > The messages reinforce each other by telling the child that he or she is more > important than anything else in the adult’s life.  Foster children seldom have > this level of security. > Because foster parents are hired by the government, they can have difficulty > with this level of communication.  Social service agencies seem to have a fear > of foster parents getting too close to the children in their care. > Despite the difficulties, the closer an adult an get to delivering those two > messages, the more the behavior in a normal child is likely to improve.

Well said. Ron

Response:

"The [foster] child I have now has a very defiant attitude, especially when we are public." Without exception, whether with their quality time or their hard earned money, the best foster parents have been "givers" rather than "takers". These are also people who could talk to children and frequently had older children still living at home who could also talk to the new arrival. Communication is important to the survival of a family.  Kids often wind up in foster care because their parents were unable to communicate effectively with among themselves or with their children. Adults who are successful in disciplining children must send two unambiguous messages to that child. One is that the child’s being good carries with it the adult’s guarantee of protection.  This may mean taking on other adults such as schoolteachers or neighborhood busybodies accustomed to blaming kids who are different for anything that goes wrong. The second message is that no one can protect the child if he or she misbehaves. This may mean finding out firsthand that a frantic phone call to a perceived authority figure doesn’t prevent a well deserved spanking. The messages reinforce each other by telling the child that he or she is more important than anything else in the adult’s life.  Foster children seldom have this level of security. Because foster parents are hired by the government, they can have difficulty with this level of communication.  Social service agencies seem to have a fear of foster parents getting too close to the children in their care. Despite the difficulties, the closer an adult an get to delivering those two messages, the more the behavior in a normal child is likely to improve.

Response:

Hi, me and my wife are foster parents.  We received our first children this past January, brothers–7 & 8, and since then one has moved to a new home. The child I have now has a very defiant attitude, especially when we are public.  Any advice.  Yeah, yeah, tried all the "proper" time out stuff and training procedures.  Nothing seems to work.  Our patience wears a "l  i  t t  l  e t  h  i  n"  every now and again.  But he is a wonderful, loving child when he wants to be.  He is taking Ritalin by the way. Neal Feldman <silverst…@home.net> wrote in message

news:39975298.A0E482F2@home.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nice to know I am missed. > Stephanie wrote: > > Does anyone know where Neal has disappeared too? It’s really quiet in here, > > and in alt.fosterparents. > > I kinda miss him. > >                                             Steph > Truth is I started a new job and it took a lot out of me getting used to it, > the karma of it an all. I am not at liberty to say what it was, but only that I > will not be at it long (thankfully). > Also being summer my kids had the audacity to demand my time for things… 9-} > But I apologize and I will endeavor to not neglect my duties in these > newsgroups. > Neal > — > ============================================================= > Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ > We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

Nice to know I am missed. Stephanie wrote: > Does anyone know where Neal has disappeared too? It’s really quiet in here, > and in alt.fosterparents. > I kinda miss him. >                                             Steph

Truth is I started a new job and it took a lot out of me getting used to it, the karma of it an all. I am not at liberty to say what it was, but only that I will not be at it long (thankfully). Also being summer my kids had the audacity to demand my time for things… 9-} But I apologize and I will endeavor to not neglect my duties in these newsgroups. Neal — ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

Stephanie wrote: > Glad to know you’re still around, Neal. It’s not the same here without you. > Gee, the fosterparents in the other group are starting to post again, I > think you’ve given them a false sense of security 9-}. >                                                  Steph

Keeping them on their toes… they should know, someone will ALWAYS be watching them. 9-} – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Neal Feldman <silverst…@home.net> wrote in message > news:39975298.A0E482F2@home.net… > > Nice to know I am missed. > > Stephanie wrote: > > > Does anyone know where Neal has disappeared too? It’s really quiet in > here, > > > and in alt.fosterparents. > > > I kinda miss him. > > >                                             Steph > > Truth is I started a new job and it took a lot out of me getting used to > it, > > the karma of it an all. I am not at liberty to say what it was, but only > that I > > will not be at it long (thankfully). > > Also being summer my kids had the audacity to demand my time for things… > 9-} > > But I apologize and I will endeavor to not neglect my duties in these > > newsgroups. > > Neal > > — > > ============================================================= > > Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ > > We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

– ============================================================= Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

Response:

Glad to know you’re still around, Neal. It’s not the same here without you. Gee, the fosterparents in the other group are starting to post again, I think you’ve given them a false sense of security 9-}.                                                  Steph Neal Feldman <silverst…@home.net> wrote in message

news:39975298.A0E482F2@home.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nice to know I am missed. > Stephanie wrote: > > Does anyone know where Neal has disappeared too? It’s really quiet in here, > > and in alt.fosterparents. > > I kinda miss him. > >                                             Steph > Truth is I started a new job and it took a lot out of me getting used to it, > the karma of it an all. I am not at liberty to say what it was, but only that I > will not be at it long (thankfully). > Also being summer my kids had the audacity to demand my time for things… 9-} > But I apologize and I will endeavor to not neglect my duties in these > newsgroups. > Neal > — > ============================================================= > Home Page: http://members.home.net/silverstorm/ > We will never rest until Gestapo CPS is completely abolished!

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