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ABOUT PARENTAL NOTIFICATION

Question:

>    Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that >    they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having >    sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills, >    and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare? >    Riiiggghhhttt! > If I understand that correctly, Chris is saying that any parents who > have a daughter who has sex with an older man without her parents > knowing about it have no parenting skills and do not care about their > daughter.

No, they don’t have GOOD parenting skills.  Anyone who is unaware of the identity of the people with whom their child[ren] are spending time is NOT demonstrating good parenting skills.  IMO, they are also demonstrating a lack of proper concern about their child, in that they don’t care enough about their child[ren]’s welfare to ascertain the identity of their child[ren]’s companions. > Do you really believe that every underage girl who is afraid to tell > her parents she is pregnant is proof that her home life is so bad? > That is pure poppycock, Tom.  Girls from very good, supportive homes > would often be afraid to tell their parents for an assortiment of > reasons.

There is afraid and afraid.  Afraid to tell one’s parents because the parents will be disappointed/upset is one thing.  Afraid to tell because the parents will react in a dangerously negative fashion is another.  And, the only person with any real ‘take’ on which it is is the girl. > BTW, don’t know where you got the idea I was recommending such girls > should be forced tell "THE GOVERNMENT."  I have said they should have > to tell their parents.  If there is valid reason why she should not > have to tell her parents, then there is a judicial bypass provision > where she can tell a judge instead.  If the judge buys her reasons, > she can get an abortion without parential notification.

Fine by me. Chris Owens

Response:

Oliver Goldsmith (papaj…@express-news.net) wrote: : Tom Scalf wrote:

: > : > In article <33502ED2.2…@express-news.net>, : > papaj…@express-news.net wrote:

: : > >Christine A. Owens wrote: : : > >>>Papa Jack wrote: : :   =================================================================== : > Tom Scalf wrote: : > Hopefully, you have been here long enough to know that Chris does : > not sit in judgement of anyone.   : :   =================================================================== : Papa Jack remarks: : But Chris just did.  Remember, she said: : :    Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that :    they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having :    sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills, :    and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare? :    Riiiggghhhttt! : : If I understand that correctly, Chris is saying that any parents who : have a daughter who has sex with an older man without her parents : knowing about it have no parenting skills and do not care about their : daughter. Where do you get "no parenting skills" from?  Chris was implying that it was unlikely (not impossible, I’m sure) that they would suddenly go from feeble skills to good skills.  That a pregnancy was unlikely to reap the benefits you seem to keep insisting would follow from the announcement that the daughter was pregnant. : : Tom, that’s about as judgemental as one can get.   How is saying that someone will likely continue along their current course (lack of involvement in their child’s life) "as judgemental as one can get"?  I’ve seen you bee far more judgemental in only the last 48 hours. : :   =================================================================== : > Tom Scalf wrote: : > If not, I can assure you from her posts of two years : > ago, when i was on the net before, that she is very level-headed and : > non-judgemental.  Further, she is wise enough to be able to remember : > her teenage years and relate her feelings and experiences then with : > the actions of todays teens. : :   =================================================================== : Papa Jack remarks: : Frankly, I’ve found Chris to be very judgemental on an assortment of : topics.   I’m sure she’d return the compliment. : : It’s nice to know you like Chris so much. : :   =================================================================== : >>Papa Jac wrote:

: >>Do you really believe that the pregnancy of underage girls should : >>officially be kept a secret from their parents while the government : >>helps her sneak around and have an abortion.  Do you understand how : >>far out and radical that really is? : :   =================================================================== : > Tom Scalf wrote: : > Do you really think that a pregnant young girl whose home life is : > so bad that she is afraid to tell her parents should be forced to : > ask the government to let her get an abortion?  I don’t. : :   =================================================================== : Papa Jack remarks: : This is funny.  First, you go on about how non-judgemental Chris was. : Now you make the same ridiculous judgemental claim.   : : Do you really believe that every underage girl who is afraid to tell : her parents she is pregnant is proof that her home life is so bad? It’s certainly not proof that things are hunky-dory, is it? : : That is pure poppycock, Tom.  Girls from very good, supportive homes : would often be afraid to tell their parents for an assortiment of : reasons.   Like? : : BTW, don’t know where you got the idea I was recommending such girls : should be forced tell "THE GOVERNMENT."  I have said they should have : to tell their parents.  If there is valid reason why she should not : have to tell her parents, then there is a judicial bypass provision : where she can tell a judge instead.  If the judge buys her reasons, : she can get an abortion without parential notification. And if she’s a rape/incest victim who istoo traumatized and afraid of her attacker to do either, then who cares?  Right? Unless you are finally going to answer the question about what those poor girls are supposed to do under your system? Laura

Response:

> Well, Chris, it’s darned obvious that you never raised any kids.   Or, > if you did, you didn’t have a clue about what was REALLY going on.

I have two foster daughters, both in their teens.  Whilst I am certain that both of them have done things that I would rather not have had them do, and whilst I am certain that both of them have done things about I know nothing, I am absolutely certain that neither of them has an on-going relationship about which I do not know.  It’s called supervision, and works just fine, thanks. > Very few teenagers tell their parents EVERYTHING.  These are the > years of rebellion.  This is nature’s way of preparing them to > really be on their own.  So if you’re so arrogant to sit in judge- > ment on all parents whose daughters get pregnant, then it tells us > much more about you than about the parents in question.

Not all parents whose daughters get pregnant, those parents who are so out of touch with their daughter’s lives that they don’t know who they are seeing. > Do you really believe that the pregnancy of underage girls should > officially be kept a secret from their parents while the government > helps her sneak around and have an abortion.  Do you understand how > far out and radical that really is?

Yes, a really radical concept, privacy of person.  And, yes, I think that girls should be able to get an abortion without their parents’ permission.  While I am certain it would be better for parents and children to have open channels of communication, this just isn’t reality in many cases.  A safe, legal abortion is vastly preferable to a DIY or a child thrown out on the street or beaten within an inch of her life because she got pregnant. Chris Owens

Response:

Jackass <papaj…@express-news.net> wrote: >Christine A. Owens wrote: >> Let me see if I have this right: >> Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that >> they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having >> sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills, >> and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare? >> Riiiggghhhttt! >Well, Chris, it’s darned obvious that you never raised any kids.   Or, >if you did, you didn’t have a clue about what was REALLY going on.

I think you’re making unwarranted assumptions about your parenting skills. — Ray Fischer        It is a strange desire to seek power and to lose liberty. r…@netcom.com         Francis Bacon

Response:

Tom Scalf wrote: > Do you really think that a pregnant young girl whose home life is so bad that > she is afraid to tell her parents should be forced to ask the government to > let her get an abortion?  I don’t.

Why do you assume that her home life is so bad that she is afraid to tell her parents?  Could it be that she simply does not know how to tell her parents, or maybe she is afraid she will destroy their image of her?  I have known very good parents who have told their children they could tell them anything and they would try to help them, but when the girls got pregnant, they did not tell their parents because they believed what their peers had to say about how their parents would probably react.  Finally, when they did tell their parents, they were totally surprised. You know when I was a teenager I thought my parents knew very little and certainly did not understand me, even though we had a good relationship.  I thought they were a little out of touch and did not understand the real world.  The reason why a teen might not want to tell her parents is not always necessarily because she comes from an abusive home. Often it has a lot to do with just her maturity level.  I found that the older I got for some strange reason, the more understanding my parents truly were.  They did not change but I did. Cheryl

Response:

Cheryl Morris wrote: > Tom Scalf wrote: > > Tom Scalf wrote: > > Do you really think that a pregnant young girl whose home life is so bad that > > she is afraid to tell her parents should be forced to ask the government to > > let her get an abortion?  I don’t.

    ================================================================= – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cheryl Morris wrote: > Why do you assume that her home life is so bad that she is afraid to > tell her parents?  Could it be that she simply does not know how to tell > her parents, or maybe she is afraid she will destroy their image of > her?  I have known very good parents who have told their children they > could tell them anything and they would try to help them, but when the > girls got pregnant, they did not tell their parents because they > believed what their peers had to say about how their parents would > probably react.  Finally, when they did tell their parents, they were > totally surprised. You know when I was a teenager I thought my parents > knew very little and certainly did not understand me, even though we had > a good relationship.  I thought they were a little out of touch and did > not understand the real world.  The reason why a teen might not want to > tell her parents is not always necessarily because she comes from an > abusive home. > Often it has a lot to do with just her maturity level.  I found that the > older I got for some strange reason, the more understanding my parents > truly were.  They did not change but I did. > Cheryl

    ================================================================= Papa Jack comments: Thank you, Cheryl.  I had been trying to find the time to say some- thing similar, but as you may have noticed I have been inundated with childish manure the last couple of days. The PARs would have us believe that every girl who is reluctant to tell her parents that she is pregnant is positive proof that her family life is nonexistant — and probable abusive.  Now we all know that has no relationship to reality. Have a nice day. — {               Papa Jack { {               http://www.express-news.net/papajack         "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all          men are created equal; that they are endowed by          their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that          among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of          happiness."          –Thomas Jefferson

Response:

Tom Scalf wrote: > In article <33502ED2.2…@express-news.net>, > papaj…@express-news.net wrote: > >Christine A. Owens wrote: > >>>Papa Jack wrote: > >>>The assumption is that most of the parents will give a damn!  They > >>>will ask questions and expect answers.  If she was smoking dope, > >>>they would demand to know where she got it — and where she got > >>>the money.  Since she is pregant, it would seem logical that the > >>>parents would ask who did this to her and insist that she tell > >>>them.  There are a few who would clam up an protect the guy, but > >>>most will tell sooner or later.  Then, the parents have the > >>>"CHOICE" of notifying the proper authorities.

   ================================================================== > >> Christine A. Owens wrote: > >> Let me see if I have this right: > >> Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that > >> they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having > >> sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills, > >> and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare? > >> Riiiggghhhttt!

   ================================================================== >>Papa Jack sighs: >>Well, Chris, it’s darned obvious that you never raised any kids.   Or, >>if you did, you didn’t have a clue about what was REALLY going on. >>My three grown sons like to sit around now and tell me what they >>were REALLY doing when they were teens.  They got into all sorts of >>little scraps that they hid from me and my wife.  I pretend to be >>disgusted with them, but then I remember that I did the same with >>my parents — who were fine caring people.

  =================================================================== > Tom Scalf wrote: > And when they were teens did you also pretend that you didn’t _know_ about > those little scrapes?  Probably.  If my children had been living with me at > that age (i was divorced by that time), I would have. My fiance’ at that time > had a 17 year old son, a 13 yr old daughter and an 11 year old daughter who > were living with us and a 19year old daughter who had just married the father > of her 2yr old daughter (she had gotten pregnant while living with her > father).  I learned a lot from that experience.  Set individualized rules for > the kids and consistently enforce them.  Let them bend the rules occassionaly, > but know what they were up to.  That way they can do their rebelling and you > can maintain the illusion of not knowing until, or unless, they start heading > in a direction which could get them in trouble.

  =================================================================== Papa Jack remarks: Okay.  Your point?   =================================================================== >> Papa Jack wrote: >> Very few teenagers tell their parents EVERYTHING.  These are the >> years of rebellion.  This is nature’s way of preparing them to >> really be on their own.  So if you’re so arrogant to sit in judge- >> ment on all parents whose daughters get pregnant, then it tells us >> much more about you than about the parents in question.

  =================================================================== > Tom Scalf wrote: > Hopefully, you have been here long enough to know that Chris does > not sit in judgement of anyone.  

  =================================================================== Papa Jack remarks: But Chris just did.  Remember, she said:    Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that    they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having    sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills,    and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare?    Riiiggghhhttt! If I understand that correctly, Chris is saying that any parents who have a daughter who has sex with an older man without her parents knowing about it have no parenting skills and do not care about their daughter. Tom, that’s about as judgemental as one can get.     =================================================================== > Tom Scalf wrote: > If not, I can assure you from her posts of two years > ago, when i was on the net before, that she is very level-headed and > non-judgemental.  Further, she is wise enough to be able to remember > her teenage years and relate her feelings and experiences then with > the actions of todays teens.

  =================================================================== Papa Jack remarks: Frankly, I’ve found Chris to be very judgemental on an assortment of topics.   It’s nice to know you like Chris so much.   =================================================================== >>Papa Jac wrote: >>Do you really believe that the pregnancy of underage girls should >>officially be kept a secret from their parents while the government >>helps her sneak around and have an abortion.  Do you understand how >>far out and radical that really is?

  =================================================================== > Tom Scalf wrote: > Do you really think that a pregnant young girl whose home life is > so bad that she is afraid to tell her parents should be forced to > ask the government to let her get an abortion?  I don’t.

  =================================================================== Papa Jack remarks: This is funny.  First, you go on about how non-judgemental Chris was. Now you make the same ridiculous judgemental claim.   Do you really believe that every underage girl who is afraid to tell her parents she is pregnant is proof that her home life is so bad? That is pure poppycock, Tom.  Girls from very good, supportive homes would often be afraid to tell their parents for an assortiment of reasons.   BTW, don’t know where you got the idea I was recommending such girls should be forced tell "THE GOVERNMENT."  I have said they should have to tell their parents.  If there is valid reason why she should not have to tell her parents, then there is a judicial bypass provision where she can tell a judge instead.  If the judge buys her reasons, she can get an abortion without parential notification. Have a nice day. — {               Papa Jack { {               http://www.express-news.net/papajack         "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all          men are created equal; that they are endowed by          their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that          among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of          happiness."          –Thomas Jefferson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <33502ED2.2…@express-news.net>, papaj…@express-news.net wrote: >Christine A. Owens wrote: >>>The assumption is that most of the parents will give a damn!  They >>>will ask questions and expect answers.  If she was smoking dope, >>>they would demand to know where she got it — and where she got >>>the money.  Since she is pregant, it would seem logical that the >>>parents would ask who did this to her and insist that she tell >>>them.  There are a few who would clam up an protect the guy, but >>>most will tell sooner or later.  Then, the parents have the >>>"CHOICE" of notifying the proper authorities. >   ================================================================== >> Christine A. Owens wrote: >> Let me see if I have this right: >> Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that >> they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having >> sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills, >> and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare? >> Riiiggghhhttt! >> Chris Owens >   ================================================================== >Papa Jack sighs: >Well, Chris, it’s darned obvious that you never raised any kids.   Or, >if you did, you didn’t have a clue about what was REALLY going on. >My three grown sons like to sit around now and tell me what they >were REALLY doing when they were teens.  They got into all sorts of >little scraps that they hid from me and my wife.  I pretend to be >disgusted with them, but then I remember that I did the same with >my parents — who were fine caring people.

And when they were teens did you also pretend that you didn’t _know_ about those little scrapes?  Probably.  If my children had been living with me at that age (i was divorced by that time), I would have. My fiance’ at that time had a 17 year old son, a 13 yr old daughter and an 11 year old daughter who were living with us and a 19year old daughter who had just married the father of her 2yr old daughter (she had gotten pregnant while living with her father).  I learned a lot from that experience.  Set individualized rules for the kids and consistently enforce them.  Let them bend the rules occassionaly, but know what they were up to.  That way they can do their rebelling and you can maintain the illusion of not knowing until, or unless, they start heading in a direction which could get them in trouble. >Very few teenagers tell their parents EVERYTHING.  These are the >years of rebellion.  This is nature’s way of preparing them to >really be on their own.  So if you’re so arrogant to sit in judge- >ment on all parents whose daughters get pregnant, then it tells us >much more about you than about the parents in question.

Hopefully, you have been here long enough to know that Chris does not sit in judgement of anyone.  If not, I can assure you from her posts of two years ago, when i was on the net before, that she is very level-headed and non-judgemental.  Further, she is wise enough to be able to remember her teenage years and relate her feelings and experiences then with the actions of todays teens. >Do you really believe that the pregnancy of underage girls should >officially be kept a secret from their parents while the government >helps her sneak around and have an abortion.  Do you understand how >far out and radical that really is?

Do you really think that a pregnant young girl whose home life is so bad that she is afraid to tell her parents should be forced to ask the government to let her get an abortion?  I don’t. Tom Scalf tscal…@dc.net

Response:

Christine A. Owens wrote: >>The assumption is that most of the parents will give a damn!  They >>will ask questions and expect answers.  If she was smoking dope, >>they would demand to know where she got it — and where she got >>the money.  Since she is pregant, it would seem logical that the >>parents would ask who did this to her and insist that she tell >>them.  There are a few who would clam up an protect the guy, but >>most will tell sooner or later.  Then, the parents have the >>"CHOICE" of notifying the proper authorities.

   ================================================================== > Christine A. Owens wrote: > Let me see if I have this right: > Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that > they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having > sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills, > and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare? > Riiiggghhhttt! > Chris Owens

   ================================================================== Papa Jack sighs: Well, Chris, it’s darned obvious that you never raised any kids.   Or, if you did, you didn’t have a clue about what was REALLY going on. My three grown sons like to sit around now and tell me what they were REALLY doing when they were teens.  They got into all sorts of little scraps that they hid from me and my wife.  I pretend to be disgusted with them, but then I remember that I did the same with my parents — who were fine caring people. Very few teenagers tell their parents EVERYTHING.  These are the years of rebellion.  This is nature’s way of preparing them to really be on their own.  So if you’re so arrogant to sit in judge- ment on all parents whose daughters get pregnant, then it tells us much more about you than about the parents in question. Do you really believe that the pregnancy of underage girls should officially be kept a secret from their parents while the government helps her sneak around and have an abortion.  Do you understand how far out and radical that really is? — {               Papa Jack { {               http://www.express-news.net/papajack         "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all          men are created equal; that they are endowed by          their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that          among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of          happiness."          –Thomas Jefferson

Response:

H.D. Thoreau (papaj…@express-news.net) wrote:

: Christine A. Owens wrote: : >> : >>The assumption is that most of the parents will give a damn!  They : >>will ask questions and expect answers.  If she was smoking dope, : >>they would demand to know where she got it — and where she got : >>the money.  Since she is pregant, it would seem logical that the : >>parents would ask who did this to her and insist that she tell : >>them.  There are a few who would clam up an protect the guy, but : >>most will tell sooner or later.  Then, the parents have the : >>"CHOICE" of notifying the proper authorities. : :    ================================================================== : > Christine A. Owens wrote: : > Let me see if I have this right: : > Parents who are so out-of-touch with their daughter’s life that : > they have NO IDEA that she is dating an older man, much less having : > sex with him, are suddenly going to develop good parenting skills, : > and demonstrate concern about their daughter’s welfare? : > Riiiggghhhttt! : > Chris Owens : : Do you really believe that the pregnancy of underage girls should : officially be kept a secret from their parents while the government : helps her sneak around and have an abortion.  Do you understand how : far out and radical that really is? How precisely is the "government help(ing) her sneak around and have an abortion" by keeping it nose out of her business in the first place? Laura

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