Foster Parents FAQ » Foster Parents » the crisis counselor who wasn't

the crisis counselor who wasn't

Question:

: Susan, : HOW DARE YOU discuss private e-mail in a public newsgroup?  If you have : been around so long then you KNOW that that is EXTREMELY poor : netiquette. Actually, the netiquette jury has been undecided about that for as long as I’ve been kicking around the net….which is about 5 years, natch. It is pretty much accepted that one does not *post* private email in a public newsgroup, though even that has its exceptions. *Discussing* email is an entirely different kettle of fish.  Being as much of this newsgroup is people processing their lives—both coping with past abuse and coping with current stresses/traumas when the current-day is impacted by past experiences—-well, Susan choosing to discuss your email (without quoting it) here is as valid as my choosing to talk about what’s going on in school, or something I read in a magazine.  These are the things that affect our lives and our emotional status, and often it’s practically impossible to discuss one’s emotional status coherently *without* the sort of context that Susan provided. Where the heck is your sense of netiquette from, and wherever did you get the idea that it was the universal standard? : This just reaffirms my original conclusion:  that you are a : self-righteous arrogant bitch, and I should never have written back to : you in the first place. : Quite sincerely, : Amy Gleason Quite sincerely, I think it’s quite foolish-looking when you spew out name calling like the above and then sign it "sincerely."   Now I don’t know what passed in email between the two of you. However, if the bare facts are as I understand them: Susan replied to your post here in AAR, then you sent email asking for more feedback, then Susan emailed you with more feedback, then you went off on her for being self-righteous and arrogant….. (do I have the sequence right?)   Here’s a few thoughts. 1)  Someone giving you feedback when you solicit that feedback from that specific individual (like, for example, through email) is being neither self-righteous nor arrogant.  After all, *you* asked her to tell you her opinions and that’s what she did, as far as I understand things. 2)  If Susan’s feedback was indeed a more detailed version of what she said here on the newsgroup, then I’m sorry you’re in a snit about it, because I think it was good advice.  A crisis line worker cannot acheive the same sort of healing effect as more regular contact with a more extensively trained couselor.  Bottom line. Nor should she try to substitute for more regular and extensive counseling. (Oh, and if you want to know what authority I have to make such a conclusion, it’s on my authority as a patient.  I know what has worked to heal me and what has not.) 3)  Since you’ve been consistently presenting yourself in your capacity as crisis counselor, I have to ask: does this post *also* present your demeanor as crisis counselor?  Honestly, if it takes so little provocation (a purported breach of netiquette that isn’t really a breach of netiquette) to start you calling someone a "self-righteous arrogant bitch," I really do worry about your demeanour with people who call the crisis line.  I’m just hoping that you’ve up all your tactful energy on those callers which is why you’re being so short-tempered here….  :( Sherri

Response:

Hi all :)    Thank you all so much for the support you’ve given me here!!  Crisis, Sherri, rosee, Julia, Blain, Swords, Panther, pat, the few of you spoke with me via email.. I couldn’t ask for better friends.  At first, I had been pretty blown away by the situation here.. but your comments and support have been undescribably helpful in helping me get back on track, and in helping me move on.  Thanks!!!                         –Susan, grateful (very)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Probably most of all of the idiot doctor who "treated" me when I was an adolescent inpatient.. I’d been admitted against my will. (like, my mom had to have some policemen escort me to the hospital as I was *not* going to just get into her car and go..)  I’d just gotten myself out of a different hospital AMA by proving to the doc’s that I wasn’t suicidal.. this was two days later, when absolutely *nothing* had happened except that this new hospital had a bed that opened up. :P So anyway, I get there (quite angry, though not violent, and not suicidal..), and they of course admit me.  (key word, "adolescent")  And I speak with the doctor assigned to my case.. explaining the situation to him, telling him it’s bullshit that I’m there, that I’m *not* at risk of hurting myself, and that I’d just convinced a whole slew of hospital staff otherwise not two days before..  He decides (and tells me) that he "knows me better than I know myself" (this, after about an hour and half of speaking with me..).. that not only do I need to be in the hospital, but that I need to be on 60 mg of Prozac and I forget how much of Lithium, and that he’s going to confine me to my room until I agree to take em.  (note: I wasn’t on *any* meds when I got there, and he was going to *start* me on these levels..)  I’d never been on Lithium before (or since), but I *had* been on Prozac for nearly a year in between.. and I knew what the doses were supposed to be.  (Starting someone on 60mg is not only insane, but dangerous and grounds for malpractice.. You start em on 20 mg (or less, though generally 20 mg), and work up from there.. something that’s been confirmed for me by virtually every shrink I’ve seen since, and in my own studies as well..)  *thank god* my parents didn’t agree to his little medication plan (as I would have been in my room for quite a long time, as I wasn’t going to take em..  even at 16 I knew that this was medically stupid..).  But he’s another one who sat there and pretended to listen, and asked me what I thought was going on and what I thought we should do.. and then decided to ignore everything I’d said, and let me know that he knew what was needed all along, and was going to act accordingly.

same thing happened to my sister… mother had her admitted when she was 16.  told them that she was suicidal, prostituing herself for drugs, and extremly violent.  (I’ll grant the last one at least in regards to the mother) they tested her for drugs upon admittance but when the resuilts came back clean they re ran all of the tests because "the results were contasminated" amazingly when the *new* results came back they were positive for *everything* sheesh

Response:

– Susan, HOW DARE YOU discuss private e-mail in a public newsgroup?  If you have been around so long then you KNOW that that is EXTREMELY poor netiquette. This just reaffirms my original conclusion:  that you are a self-righteous arrogant bitch, and I should never have written back to you in the first place. Quite sincerely, Amy Gleason

        Amy,         I for one am glad that Susan mentioned that in her case how you reacted to her trust that you actually did want input.         It wasn’t a posted email. She was obviously very hurt and shocked at your reactioning in an abusive manner toward her input.         Most ppl posting here are somewhat a known quantity as far as their verbage under stress, their behaviors and their issues.  It doesn’t take long.  Nothing was known about you as a new poster other than your request, and you were responded to in trust by some ppl here that what your request was in fact what you wanted.  You specifically asked that victim respond to you, – and that the victims be MPD, I believe.You specifically asked that they email their response to you, and then you reacted very poorly and abusively. Now you are complaining that she warned other ppl she cares about on this group.         I’m glad she did.         – Panther   http://asarian-host.org – anon service  & websites http://asarian-host.org/inpsyte – trauma psychology http://asarian-host.org/beaumond – fiberarts

Response:

Susan, HOW DARE YOU discuss private e-mail in a public newsgroup?  If you have been around so long then you KNOW that that is EXTREMELY poor netiquette.

Actually, discussing email isn’t against netiquette.  I agree that _posting_ email wouldn’t be something I’d choose to do unless it was threatening, but that’s me, and other people choose for themselves. This just reaffirms my original conclusion:  that you are a self-righteous arrogant bitch, and I should never have written back to you in the first place.

Strangely, I agree.  Amy, you’re making a bunch of assumptions that haven’t panned out.  I’d have to agree that you shouldn’t have written back, given that you didn’t understand the conditions. Quite sincerely, Amy Gleason

Yes, but sincerely what?  Amy, I have to ask whether you really wanted honesty, since you don’t appear open to differing opinions. Swords if you want to remain anonymous.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, it was written: Shouldn’t a crisis counsellor be able to deal with such a minor crisis as this one without blowing and calling people names? This concerns me also. But I try to view it in the same vein as I did a couple other women I knew. One answered phones on a rape support line and one decided decided "it didn’t matter" that her parents sexually abused her and she went back to hang out with them and totally changed her personality. Her roommate – who worked at a shelter for battered women – took up dating a recent ex. of mine who had been *very* abusive to me – *after* I’d told her about the abuse. But *supposedly* they weren’t totally fucked up at their jobs. (I hope I’m not totally in denial about this!)

We had a case in our group of a volunteer who was asked to do check-in calls with the victims of the guys in the group a couple years ago. This particular volunteer took it upon herself to tell off any of the victims who were still in the relationship with any of the guys who had abused them, or who were in any way allowing them to be a part of their lives.   That particular volunteer was taken off that duty when word got back to the agency and I’ve not heard of that problem happening with us again. However, messed up people participating in things like this as volunteers is a huge problem — I’m working on a way of getting to the proper audience a story about problems within shelters for battered women.  Once I get a little free time to do some site maintenance I’m going to be adding this information to my site and then will begin passing around the urls about it as widely as I can to begin to get some awareness out there that this problem exists, that it’s real, and that it’s dangerous. Julia (trying to think positive about how together *her* counselor is and others she’s met in the field who *aren’t* fucked up!)

There are some very good very healthy folks out there doing therapy work.  Unfortunately, this is not a prerequesite for getting involved in therapy work, and you can never assume that what you’ve got is a healthy one — you need to check it out and find out. Julia *

Take care, Blain —     Do you need to control others?   |            Blain Nelson http://www.pacificrim.net/~blainn/abuse/ <-Is abuse part of your life?

Response:

I guess that answers my question I was trying not to ask (trying not to be the old gossip I have the urge to be sometimes) of who wrote the original post. Susan – for what it’s worth, I don’t see you as self-righteous or arrogant. I like what you have to say. I appreciate how much you’ve responded to my posts and asked questions and spent time talking with me in them. You’re a bit more analytical than me – but that is (in my opinion) a good trait! <<<<<<<<<<hug (if Ok) Julia Susan, HOW DARE YOU discuss private e-mail in a public newsgroup?  If you have been around so long then you KNOW that that is EXTREMELY poor netiquette. This just reaffirms my original conclusion:  that you are a self-righteous arrogant bitch, and I should never have written back to you in the first place. Quite sincerely, Amy Gleason

Julia * http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tankgrrl "Oh God, Mulder, it smells like… I think it’s bile." "Is there any way I can get it off my fingers quickly  without betraying my cool exterior?"

Response:

On Sun, 21 Dec 1997, it was written: Shouldn’t a crisis counsellor be able to deal with such a minor crisis as this one without blowing and calling people names?

This concerns me also. But I try to view it in the same vein as I did a couple other women I knew. One answered phones on a rape support line and one decided decided "it didn’t matter" that her parents sexually abused her and she went back to hang out with them and totally changed her personality. Her roommate – who worked at a shelter for battered women – took up dating a recent ex. of mine who had been *very* abusive to me – *after* I’d told her about the abuse. But *supposedly* they weren’t totally fucked up at their jobs. (I hope I’m not totally in denial about this!) Then there’s my brother – who *I* think is a good therapist becuase of his extremely huge heart and his empathy levels and his high intelligence. But JP worries about his ability to deal with clients who are experiencing huge amounts of shame because my brother is just one big walking vessel of shame. "Physician heal thyself" comes to mind. :( My brother *has* to be in therapy while he practices as a therapist. I wish that applied to *everyone* including crisis counselors and admin. in battered women & homeless shelters. I’ve heard about too many really fucked up people that go into that field and just stay fucked up. Julia (trying to think positive about how together *her* counselor is and others she’s met in the field who *aren’t* fucked up!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You’re a real piece of work, Amy. There may be a self-righteous arrogant bitch here, but it sure as hell isn’t Susan! And I may be a self-righteous bitch, at times, but I’m almost never arrogant. see ya! rosee Susan, HOW DARE YOU discuss private e-mail in a public newsgroup?  If you have been around so long then you KNOW that that is EXTREMELY poor netiquette. This just reaffirms my original conclusion:  that you are a self-righteous arrogant bitch, and I should never have written back to you in the first place. Quite sincerely, Amy Gleason — For more information about this posting service, contact:

Julia * http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tankgrrl "Oh God, Mulder, it smells like… I think it’s bile." "Is there any way I can get it off my fingers quickly  without betraying my cool exterior?"

Response:

Hi Susan – that story makes me really angry -and it’s really scary! Reminds me of when I was 10 years old and was sent to a psychiatrist becaues I stopped eating and talking (unless absolutely necessary) and one of the first things I said was "I want to be taken out my parents house!" – and although I was too scared to say anything about the abuse I was very vehement that I wanted to leave. But the psychiatrist told me that as soon as I got over "my problems" things would be much better at home – and I didn’t want to go to a foster home because the people might not love me and be as nice to me as *my* parents were. Sigh. Idiot. Julia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Probably most of all of the idiot doctor who "treated" me when I was an adolescent inpatient.. I’d been admitted against my will. (like, my mom had to have some policemen escort me to the hospital as I was *not* going to just get into her car and go..)  I’d just gotten myself out of a different hospital AMA by proving to the doc’s that I wasn’t suicidal.. this was two days later, when absolutely *nothing* had happened except that this new hospital had a bed that opened up. :P So anyway, I get there (quite angry, though not violent, and not suicidal..), and they of course admit me.  (key word, "adolescent")  And I speak with the doctor assigned to my case.. explaining the situation to him, telling him it’s bullshit that I’m there, that I’m *not* at risk of hurting myself, and that I’d just convinced a whole slew of hospital staff otherwise not two days before..  He decides (and tells me) that he "knows me better than I know myself" (this, after about an hour and half of speaking with me..).. that not only do I need to be in the hospital, but that I need to be on 60 mg of Prozac and I forget how much of Lithium, and that he’s going to confine me to my room until I agree to take em.  (note: I wasn’t on *any* meds when I got there, and he was going to *start* me on these levels..)  I’d never been on Lithium before (or since), but I *had* been on Prozac for nearly a year in between.. and I knew what the doses were supposed to be.  (Starting someone on 60mg is not only insane, but dangerous and grounds for malpractice.. You start em on 20 mg (or less, though generally 20 mg), and work up from there.. something that’s been confirmed for me by virtually every shrink I’ve seen since, and in my own studies as well..)  *thank god* my parents didn’t agree to his little medication plan (as I would have been in my room for quite a long time, as I wasn’t going to take em..  even at 16 I knew that this was medically stupid..).  But he’s another one who sat there and pretended to listen, and asked me what I thought was going on and what I thought we should do.. and then decided to ignore everything I’d said, and let me know that he knew what was needed all along, and was going to act accordingly. Oh whee :) ..the folks you bump into on the internet…                 –Susan, *really* glad to have someone sane like you here to speak with.

Julia * http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tankgrrl "Oh God, Mulder, it smells like… I think it’s bile." "Is there any way I can get it off my fingers quickly  without betraying my cool exterior?"

Response:

posted/cc: email Hi c.d. :) I’m afraid you musn’t have told her what she wanted and even maybe expected to hear. In distant past ,I used to ask for "feedback" really needing pats on the back , but I couldn’t ask for pats. "feedback was a round about way to hear what I wanted to hear. When it backfired, I played the victim. Maybe this applies here.???

*nods*, it seems to fit.  Thank you for writing this.  It’s nice to hear sometimes that things aren’t "just me." I just vented more on the subject to Crisis, but want you to know I appreciate what you wrote, as well.  :) It’s the next part of what you wrote that concerns me though: Susan, on an unrelated note, I have sent you posts several times ( as well as to others) like , I built a bomb shelter for you and me and a couple of other things. I do not want you or others to think I’m ignoring your posts, but for some reason alot of my posts are not getting through. I can’t figure out what I am doing wrong sometimes and right the other times when the posts DO get through. I thought I was doing it the same all the time. Last post I re-sent you I asked for you to let me know when you got it. I gather you didn’t get it. Sorry…..I will get this computer thing figured out eventually.

doh :(  I didn’t get the bomb shelter building post.. or the one with you asking me to respond when I got it.  I hope you didn’t think I was ignoring you!!  {{{c.d.}}} I know how frustrating this was for me, when something similar happened.. from a different account and several years ago, I’d spent.. months, responding to ppl’s posts by email.  Never hearing back, but not thinking a whole lot of it, as I generally was offering support rather than asking for it (a reflection more of where I was at the time).  But then I started getting more involved than the just offering support mode.. and still wasn’t hearing back. Eventually, I sent myself email, to make sure it was working..  no response. Turns out my school’s newsreader’s mail program was busted.. *none* of the mail I’d sent in the preceeding months had made it. :( :(   (VMS = evil. period. grin.) Maybe now would be a good time to write a whole bunch of test messages?  Like, post a test message to the newsgroup.. then post one replying to someone that you both post and cc: via email.. and then post one just replying via email.. make notes of what the settings are when you do so, and see what happens? Also, if you’re replying via email, make sure to edit out all the nospams and remove.this’s that ppl (like myself) stick in their email addresses to hide from spam programs. That really sucks, to have thought through responses and then not have em show up :(                        {{{c.d.}}},                               –Susan

Response:

Susan, HOW DARE YOU discuss private e-mail in a public newsgroup?  If you have been around so long then you KNOW that that is EXTREMELY poor netiquette. This just reaffirms my original conclusion:  that you are a self-righteous arrogant bitch, and I should never have written back to you in the first place. Quite sincerely, Amy Gleason

Response:

Amy I don’t know who the hell you are and don’t really care – there has been quite enough name calling around here of late. You asked for advice you got it – you didn’t like it – you had a hissy fit and werre called on it – get over it.   Crisis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Susan, HOW DARE YOU discuss private e-mail in a public newsgroup?  If you have been around so long then you KNOW that that is EXTREMELY poor netiquette. This just reaffirms my original conclusion:  that you are a self-righteous arrogant bitch, and I should never have written back to you in the first place. Quite sincerely, Amy Gleason

Response:

Okay, now I’m mad. Little miss thing wrote to me asking for help, asking for feedback on her situation. I spent a lot of time and effort responding to her.. and she writes me a letter telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about, that I’m full of myself, that how *dare* I suggest she approach an aspect of her job differently, how wrong I am, and how right she is. *SHE* is the one who asked *ME* for feedback. I dont need this crap, I really dont. I pity both her and those she purports to be helping.               –Susan

Response:

Okay, now I’m mad. Little miss thing wrote to me asking for help, asking for feedback on her situation.

Did I miss a post???? I musst have. I spent a lot of time and effort responding to her.. and she writes me a letter telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about, that I’m full of myself, that how *dare* I suggest she approach an aspect of her job differently, how wrong I am, and how right she is.

You hit her in the pride.  I imagine you gave her a lot to think about regarding the boundaries of a crisis counselor – for some getting involved on a deep level with a caller is hard to avoid even when they know it is not their function – it is ever harder to let go and step away.  Been there done that when I first started. I was told very firmly what my function was and was not.  I was to leave the calls at the door of the facility and pick up "my" life as I left a shift.  It takes a while to get the hang of that. *SHE* is the one who asked *ME* for feedback. I dont need this crap, I really dont. I pity both her and those she purports to be helping.

I hear you loud and clear – sometimes people don’t want to hear what they ask for – but you gave her something to thik about and for what it worth I thought it had a lot of merit. Crisis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –              –Susan

Response:

Okay, now I’m mad. Little miss thing wrote to me asking for help, asking for feedback on her situation. I spent a lot of time and effort responding to her.. and she writes me a letter telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about, that I’m full of myself, that how *dare* I suggest she approach an aspect of her job differently, how wrong I am, and how right she is.

I’m afraid you musn’t have told her what she wanted and even maybe expected to hear. In distant past ,I used to ask for "feedback" really needing pats on the back , but I couldn’t ask for pats. "feedback was a round about way to hear what I wanted to hear. When it backfired, I played the victim. Maybe this applies here.??? *SHE* is the one who asked *ME* for feedback. I dont need this crap, I really dont. I pity both her and those she purports to be helping.               –Susan

Susan, on an unrelated note, I have sent you posts several times ( as well as to others) like , I built a bomb shelter for you and me and a couple of other things. I do not want you or others to think I’m ignoring your posts, but for some reason alot of my posts are not getting through. I can’t figure out what I am doing wrong sometimes and right the other times when the posts DO get through. I thought I was doing it the same all the time. Last post I re-sent you I asked for you to let me know when you got it. I gather you didn’t get it. Sorry…..I will get this computer thing figured out eventually.

Response:

Heya Crisis :) Okay, now I’m mad. Little miss thing wrote to me asking for help, asking for feedback on her situation. Did I miss a post???? I musst have.

It was by private email, after what I had written here.  She wrote to me asking me for further advice.  I sent her my opinion, and it was then that she bit.  (I just reread it before deleting it.. among other things, evidently what I think or say is "not valid" unless I flash my "credentials" at her.  (I actually do have some interesting letters and experiences attached to my name, but I’ve never felt the need to bring them up and hide behind em, including now.. so her comment wasn’t based upon me saying "I’m a therapist with lots of training" or anything like that.) Oy.  It’s been a while since I’ve gotten an email that made me that angry. I spent a lot of time and effort responding to her.. and she writes me a letter telling me I don’t know what I’m talking about, that I’m full of myself, that how *dare* I suggest she approach an aspect of her job differently, how wrong I am, and how right she is. You hit her in the pride.  I imagine you gave her a lot to think about regarding the boundaries of a crisis counselor – for some getting involved on a deep level with a caller is hard to avoid even when they know it is not their function – it is ever harder to let go and step away.  Been there done that when I first started. I was told very firmly what my function was and was not.  I was to leave the calls at the door of the facility and pick up "my" life as I left a shift.  It takes a while to get the hang of that.

*nods*  must have been something like that.  Elsewhere in her letter she snidely offered me the position of crisis line supervisor "as I seem to think I know all there is to know about it".. and then asked repeatedly "who’s the one with the training here?" (referring to the training she’s received at the crisis line).  My response to her: who’s the one who actively solicited my feedback?  If she were as sure of herself as she decided she was in this second email, what’s she doing posting and emailing for help? :P It makes me mad, because everything I wrote to her was to try to help her.. showing her how to set limits (like, if a caller were to continue to call with inappropriate dependence on the line, suggestions of what to say..), and because I wrote at her request, since she had said she was having trouble.  To read the second letter, it would seem I pulled her email address out of some bodily orifice, sought her out on my own, and spewed my "rightous" ways upon her, when she was doing just fine on her own. :P  It was as though I was one of those evangelicists (sp?) who goes knocking on people’s doors to recruit em, telling them that their religion is wrong. *sigh* *SHE* is the one who asked *ME* for feedback. I dont need this crap, I really dont. I pity both her and those she purports to be helping. I hear you loud and clear – sometimes people don’t want to hear what they ask for – but you gave her something to thik about and for what it worth I thought it had a lot of merit. Crisis

Thank you Crisis.. it means a lot to me to hear you say that.  What I wrote to her was essentially an extention of the stuff I’d already posted here. I’m going to try to drop it now (like, from here on, I mean ;) ..  she obviously has a *lot* of her own issues seeping in all over the place, and I must have touched on some of em inadvertantly.  It was so bad that I asked her not to contact me again.  I dont think I’ve ever had to ask that of someone before, in all the time I’ve been around.. oh yeah, I was dropping it. *heh* I’m gonna have to chalk this one up to ye ole blind faith in humanity, hoping that the caller we were speaking of manages to find a path that works for her in spite of this woman. I wonder who in my life she reminds me of? Probably most of all of the idiot doctor who "treated" me when I was an adolescent inpatient.. I’d been admitted against my will. (like, my mom had to have some policemen escort me to the hospital as I was *not* going to just get into her car and go..)  I’d just gotten myself out of a different hospital AMA by proving to the doc’s that I wasn’t suicidal.. this was two days later, when absolutely *nothing* had happened except that this new hospital had a bed that opened up. :P So anyway, I get there (quite angry, though not violent, and not suicidal..), and they of course admit me.  (key word, "adolescent")  And I speak with the doctor assigned to my case.. explaining the situation to him, telling him it’s bullshit that I’m there, that I’m *not* at risk of hurting myself, and that I’d just convinced a whole slew of hospital staff otherwise not two days before..  He decides (and tells me) that he "knows me better than I know myself" (this, after about an hour and half of speaking with me..).. that not only do I need to be in the hospital, but that I need to be on 60 mg of Prozac and I forget how much of Lithium, and that he’s going to confine me to my room until I agree to take em.  (note: I wasn’t on *any* meds when I got there, and he was going to *start* me on these levels..)  I’d never been on Lithium before (or since), but I *had* been on Prozac for nearly a year in between.. and I knew what the doses were supposed to be.  (Starting someone on 60mg is not only insane, but dangerous and grounds for malpractice.. You start em on 20 mg (or less, though generally 20 mg), and work up from there.. something that’s been confirmed for me by virtually every shrink I’ve seen since, and in my own studies as well..)  *thank god* my parents didn’t agree to his little medication plan (as I would have been in my room for quite a long time, as I wasn’t going to take em..  even at 16 I knew that this was medically stupid..).  But he’s another one who sat there and pretended to listen, and asked me what I thought was going on and what I thought we should do.. and then decided to ignore everything I’d said, and let me know that he knew what was needed all along, and was going to act accordingly. Oh whee :) ..the folks you bump into on the internet…                  –Susan, *really* glad to have someone sane like you here to speak with.

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